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We may not like what we become if A.I. solves loneliness

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Re: We may not like what we become if A.I. solves loneliness

#791

Post by Nathanba »

drusenko wrote: post #775
Nathanba wrote: post #423

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a great example of what I'm talking about in regards to humans vs AI. First you misunderstand my comment, barely even responding to it, then you paint me as defensive even though I've been very open and the absolute opposite of defensive. It's actually you who is being defensive now, starting on a clear attack and painting me into some kind of scared recluse corner, somebody who supposedly can't even understa…

Your idea of there being competition for human relationships is super fascinating. In my own life, there are fun/easy relationships, and there are those which push me to think deeply and differently, for any number of reasons. In that vein, doesn’t “competition for relationships” necessarily breed egocentrism above all else? The winning relationship will give you what you want, but not what is necessarily true… In th…

The divergent views need to be backed by real reasoning, otherwise it's a case of giving value to an opinion just because it's different, not because it has actual value. I'll give you an example, I'd very likely get the same kind of haughty, a bit hurt ego response if I proclaimed that I don't believe that reading books has much value anymore. Which is something I also believe btw. The average human would immediately respond in the very typical, trained societal way via: "well, I suggest you start going to the library and start reading more and engaging with the material because you are clearly not understanding the value of reading." Such a response has nearly no value and comes from a biased position with no attempt to understand my position. They assume that they are correct while spending no energy on thought about it. It's typical of humans and AI is so much superior here.

I actually also disagree that AI cannot push productive conflict, surprisingly the first thing that AI was able to do very well was insults. Of course insults are not productive conflict but it was something I noticed and then I gave a voiced AI (elevenlabs) a big prompt about how it should please be critical, truth seeking, always thinking about how I might be wrong and suddenly I was getting a lot of pushback and almost human-like investigation of the ideas I was proposing. It was still too shallow and unable to evolve but it was giving me some real pushback. You also have to remember that the typical human criticism is always drenched in ego, greed, various self benefit calculations etc. To actually get constructive and professionally informed criticism is really hard to get from humans too, it's not like AI is in a bad spot even now. You basically have to pay somebody to get good human criticism because it's tiring to a human, it's work and it takes expertise. People on average are simply not doing this or doing it well.

I'm merely trying to see this whole AI situation as objectively as I can and likewise I try to see the value of humans as objectively as possible. Obviously humans have value, but many seem to like overestimating the value of humans a lot. We've been at the top of the food chain for so long, we've been the strongest species on the planet for so long.. we can't even think of a mental model where humans aren't inherently valuable. Similar to how people cannot think of how books couldn't inherently be of value. Because we were immersed for centuries in a system where books were the best way to get the highest quality information. Now suddenly it changed and people cannot grasp it, it's a non grata thought - simply an unwelcome thought.

Re: We may not like what we become if A.I. solves loneliness

#792

Post by hshdhdhj4444 »

vel0city wrote: post #720
mlinhares wrote: post #569

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You drive everywhere, so it's optimized for drive-through experiences, so you don't have to interact with people. Third places are hard to find, and when they exist, they're paid (movie theaters, restaurants, bars, museums, gyms) and they're not necessarily good places to make friends. There aren't natural places where you see the same people as the communities are very dispersed, with mostly single-family homes in l…

> Third places are hard to find, and when they exist, they're paid I see this claim a lot but I don't understand it. Can you give me some examples of common third places in other countries that aren't paid that don't exist in US suburbs?

For example, outside of college towns, dive bars are almost dead in the U.S. at this point.

Getting cheap drinks with some friends is hardly an option anymore.

Re: We may not like what we become if A.I. solves loneliness

#793

Post by 0points »

HaZeust wrote: post #578
0points wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was a teen meeting real girls from IRC. Guess you missed out on the S part.

"Me? Having sex from the IRC days?! Oh, don't you worry, I had sex ."

I was pointing out that besides parent being a 90s incel, there were other ways of life.

So sorry that triggered another incel /s

Re: We may not like what we become if A.I. solves loneliness

#795

Post by Bombthecat »

dv_dt wrote: post #257
stdvit wrote: post #97

> Even in a world brimming with easy distractions—TikTok, Pornhub, Candy Crush, Sudoku—people still manage to meet for drinks, work out at the gym, go on dates, muddle through real life. They actually don't. Everything from dating and fitness to manufacturing and politics is in decline in activities, and more so in effect and understanding. You can't convince (enough) people anymore that it is even important as many…

Though it's popularized to blame social media and phones, economics should not be overlooked. Pay for young generations is lagging and restaurants and bar prices are super high. Public spaces for informal gatherings has shrunk - eg fewer malls

And people started to work longer and longer now. Approaching 60 hours, after that you just won't go to gym or disco

Re: We may not like what we become if A.I. solves loneliness

#796

Post by mycatisblack »

Animats wrote: post #490

The same criticism was leveled at social media, mostly Facebook. Then at mobile phones. Before that, it was aimed at television. In between, it was aimed at games. The big change is that we've solved boredom . More entertainment content is instantly available than anyone can consume. Humanity has solved "timepass". (That term is used mostly in India [1], but is generally applicable.) A sizable fraction of the populat…

Slightly different take: first you get te generation of caution, followed by the generation of all-in. As with any novelty that replaces “something requiring effort” with “something low barrier”, it’s going to result in people that followed the wrong learning curve.

The sci-fi fan in me wonders if this is the faulty sprocket that mis-taught the social skills that lowered Japan’s population numbers.

Re: We may not like what we become if A.I. solves loneliness

#797

Post by MangoToupe »

miki123211 wrote: post #204
kylecazar wrote: post #159

AI is incapable of solving loneliness. It's a biological signal we have (thanks to evolution) to seek social connections with other humans , for things like reproduction and survival. Mentally healthy people will never be less lonely as long as they know they are talking to a model. All it can offer is a distraction and an illusion, because it has no humanity. Note: I don't even think dogs solve loneliness. They can…

> as long as they know they are talking to a model Any evidence for this? It's obvious that a sufficiently advanced AI could solve loneliness if it was allowed to present as human, you just wouldn't know it isn't one. I'm entirely unconvinced that something which seems human in all respects couldn't replace one, even if your brain knows that it's actually AI.

> It's obvious that a sufficiently advanced AI could solve loneliness if it was allowed to present as human

What does this even look like? Are you suggesting using a human surrogate?

Re: We may not like what we become if A.I. solves loneliness

#798

Post by varjag »

anovikov wrote: post #788
rcarr wrote: post #523

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Out of all developed nations, Japan is probably the one least affected by housing pricing in the world seeing as though Japanese housing depreciates rather than appreciates over time. Rent prices in America are a staggering 177.4% more expensive than Japan[1]. Ever increasing house prices, caused by the underlying power imbalance between capital and labour, is the root of all evil in the Anglosphere. It will not stop…

Isn't housing exactly the most accessible of all the world save for 2-3 totalitarian countries like Oman, in the United States? According to the Numbeo data exactly. It also has nothing to do with labor vs capital. Billionaires don't invest (much) in housing. Sometimes they do invest in commercial real estate, but never into housing. It's the middle class who buys up everything - now almost exclusively in cash - and…

Yep. It's kind of like with gas prices: Americans, with some of the world's lowest prices complain the loudest. Which appears to point out that the maladies discussed here have less of an economic nature but more of social/psychological/technological.

Re: We may not like what we become if A.I. solves loneliness

#799

Post by GreenWatermelon »

augment_me wrote: post #767

I think what is missing on from the conversation is the generational question. In general, once new technologies have been introduced, there has been the older generation who has been sad about it because they have the frame of reference on the previous way of doing things. However the new generation does not know anything else, and are often happy enough since the lower-dimensional new reality is their only reality.…

This argument does not resonate with me.

I'm in my mid 20s, far from being a grumpt old man, and I used to frequent Facebook back in the early 2010s (remember all those games?)

What became clear is how the landscape is filled to the brim with scammers and grifters. These newer applications of technology are akin to cigarettes, or heroin, or opium. They're designed to inflict misfortune for profit.

Years ago my parents would chastise me for spending too much time othe computer/phone, now I'm the one begging them to uninstall those garbage applications from their phones.

Around me, more older people than younger ones are susceptible to lies and scams perpetrated by LLMs.

The younger generation around me (kids 10 to 17 yo) are falling for the same traps I fell for when I was their age, and people my age are stil falling for: addictive online games with scummy lootboxes (especially Fifa) and gacha games.

I believe there are more than enough studies detailing the extreme negative consequences of Instagram and/or tiktok usage, so much that we don't question that anymore, and treat it like ye olde tobacco addiction. It's addicting and fucks up your health but here yo stay.

Re: We may not like what we become if A.I. solves loneliness

#800

Post by CrimsonRain »

xg15 wrote: post #612
Nathanba wrote: post #364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AI is also real to me. My emotions around AI are also real, I deeply appreciate when the AI helps me figure something out or talks to me. I think this type of response will get rarer as AI develops further and people realize that there is now competition and these sentimental reasons will have much less weight. I also have no idea what you mean by "benefits to socializing", I don't see much of any benefit compared to…

Your emotions for the AI are real, but the AI's emotions for you aren't.

why is electricity in your brain real? and fake in the AI?
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