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How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

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Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#791

Post by sepositus »

mmooss wrote: post #657
sepositus wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, this is exactly the kind of thinking that got us here. We just attribute everything to disinformation and throw our hands up as if none of this was avoidable. I'm convinced that people on the right were called Nazi's long enough that some people literally think _every_ one of them is a literal, actual Nazi. To the point where they think there's no hope in ever reaching them. I saw this coming years ago. The r…

Leaders and others on the right have been embracing white (male) supremacy and Nazis, including Musk. It's not subtle; it's often brazen. > some people literally think _every_ one of them is a literal, actual Nazi I've never heard that. Can you give an example? I think much of what you say comes from the right-wing disinformation machine - it's their talking points, and doesn't reflect anything I've experienced. Can…

> I think much of what you say comes from the right-wing disinformation machine

Here we are again. It seems to be the default mode for anything that doesn't match the mainstream narrative. Perhaps you've never heard of it because you haven't been misidentified with the right before? As a centrist, it happens a lot, and there have been plenty of instances where I was called a Nazi.

Of course it's impossible for either one of us to prove how regularly this happens. However, it seems silly to be surprised that someone on the left is unaware of it. Of course, they are. It's completely logical, just like someone on the right being completely unaware of how the right often treats left-wing individuals.

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#792

Post by dgacmu »

bongodongobob wrote: post #402
dgacmu wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You said you didn't know what to do, so some ideas to start the ideas flowing for you: - support media, particularly local. - there are protests to attend if that's your thing. Tesla takedown is one set that's getting a lot of traction. (Note: these are peaceful protests; don't hurt people's cars). There's a broad "hands off" protest April 5, as another example. - build and stay in touch with community. - encourage o…

How have those methods worked against authoritarian governments historically? I think we need to start being more realistic.

Every situation is unique. The US is a mess in part because of oligarchical control of media, and we still have lots of media organizations that maintain high quality journalism standards. Nationally, ProPublica is doing a great job, for example. Locally it's more spotty - in Pittsburgh, WESA (our local NPR news station) is a reliable and good source of information about local goings-on.

In Russia, you'll probably get thrown in prison if you protest against some of the state-sanctioned oligarchs. That's not the case in the US (i hate that I probably have to say 'yet' here) if you're a citizen. How much good will it do? Hard to measure. Most attempts to resist regimes like this are a matter of trying a lot of things and seeing what sticks.

Call your representatives and senators. Do it at least weekly. They're more responsive to things that take time. Show up to their town halls if they're brave enough to host them. Pick a few issues, learn enough about them to comment intelligently, and get involved. Say, opposing HJ 44 (a proposal that would roll back Biden-era lead water pipe replacement requirements). Your senators and reps can probably be doing more. Encourage them. :)

Sign up with indivisible; work through some of their contact-your-peeps todo items.

Vote your wallet and your retirement account. Divest of TSLA. Bias towards companies that are pushing back.

It's better to have a regular schedule of things you participate in that try to move the needle than to feel helpless. Tyrants rule through helplessness. We're not. We're not even close.

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#793

Post by sorcerer-mar »

andreygrehov wrote: post #790
sorcerer-mar wrote: post #783

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry it seems you're just not aware of how laws work. Ukraine has different laws than the US. Under Ukrainian law, drafts are legal in their current situation. Under American law, deporting people without due process is not legal in our current situation. In fact, even if the US were at war where an invocation of the Alien Enemies Act made sense, even then people are owed individualized due process before deport…

I never said Ukraine is doing anything illegal (although the legality of literally dragging people into a military car might be something to question). See my very first comment. Watch the video on Slate, then watch the videos I shared. Looks like many people on HN are getting triggered when you mention the inhumane treatment of Ukrainian men by Ukraine.

Your initial comment was meant to draw some type of equivalence between a person being arrested in America for writing an op-ed and for people being drafted for war in Ukraine.

Now you're 5 comments deep tying yourself in odd knots like "the US is being invaded by a foreign government" and "Ukraine is not at war" and "executive orders can overrule Constitutional due process rights."

You created your own confusion, my friend. An asinine starting position like your initial equivalence will do that to ya.

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#794

Post by kelseyfrog »

milesrout wrote: post #732
kelseyfrog wrote: post #573

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Redefining the definition of book banning is not a good look and not a way to win this argument. It's a hole you really don't want to dig.

Book banning means banning books. It doesn't mean removing books from school libraries. That isn't what it has ever meant. Who is doing the redefining?

> Who is doing the redefining?

The people who are saying that excluding books from libraries isn't banning. It's straightforward. Discussing this reminds me of arguing with my narcissist father - he slips through conflict by redefining terms to fit his inability to take accountability and recognize that his actions have consequences.

It really is a bad look to argue like this for a group of people who are trying to accomplish a goal.

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#796

Post by AnimalMuppet »

School-Cotton wrote: post #42
solomonb wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He can't run again.

Why not? Because a piece of paper says he’s not allowed to? Pieces of paper say a lot of things; sometimes they’re followed, sometimes not.

That "piece of paper" is the only thing saying that the president has any power. He wants us to not follow it? Fine, but he may not like the consequences, which are that he's no longer someone that we have to listen to or who has any actual power. He's just a real estate developer who thinks he's somebody important.

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#797

Post by nine_k »

milesrout wrote: post #733
nine_k wrote: post #589

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The First Amendment specifically speaks about government not limiting free expression. An indeed, school boards are a branch of the government, not a private organization. Their actions may be seen as a real infraction on the First Amendment. Thank you for the correction.

If the state doesn't limit freedom of expression by choosing what material to teach in schools (which it does) then it doesn't limit it by choosing what material to host in school libraries (which it does). If you want to say removing these books from school libraries is an illegitimate constraint on freedom of expression, then so is the school curriculum. So is public education generally.

While removing a book from a school library by the school board may be a sensible act, and does not violate the letter of the First Amendment ("Congress shall make no law..."), it definitely has something to do with the spirit of it, that it, the interaction of government and free speech. It's very certainly something to keep an eye on.

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#798

Post by nine_k »

kelseyfrog wrote: post #794
milesrout wrote: post #732

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Book banning means banning books. It doesn't mean removing books from school libraries. That isn't what it has ever meant. Who is doing the redefining?

> Who is doing the redefining? The people who are saying that excluding books from libraries isn't banning. It's straightforward. Discussing this reminds me of arguing with my narcissist father - he slips through conflict by redefining terms to fit his inability to take accountability and recognize that his actions have consequences. It really is a bad look to argue like this for a group of people who are trying to a…

This only affects school libraries. As long as the book is available in public libraries, and is legal to sell, buy, and possess, it's not banned. It's just considered inappropriate for minors. It's more like giving a movie an R rating than like banning.

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#799

Post by xboxnolifes »

russdill wrote: post #339
aprilthird2021 wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Deporting people for an op Ed has precedent in which administration?

Plenty, and it's all pretty ugly https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palmer_Raids

So you're saying it hasn't happened in 4-5 generations? While certainly precedent, it's understandable people are worried about it.

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#800

Post by beepbopboopp »

spiderfarmer wrote: post #590
beepbopboopp wrote: post #542

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With all do respect, I dont think so. The unfairness is relative feeling of judgment brought to you directly by the ability to compare yourself to your neighbors via social.

If only the USA as a country compared themselves with countries that do better.

To be fair, can you name another democratic country that has gone 250 years without conflict?
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