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GitHub to lay off 10% and close all offices

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Re: GitHub to lay off 10% and close all offices

#791

Post by pmontra »

WoodenChair wrote: post #723
jabits wrote: post #722

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you’re young maybe, but after ten or fifteen years of “deep social connections”, working remote can be quite peaceful and satisfying. Personally I’ve always been more productive working at home.

Well I'm 35. You can decide if that's young or old. Some people are just more social than others of course.

You're young and I agree with your assessment. I also think that working close together is fundamental to start something new quickly, especially if the team doesn't know each other well. Think of new hires in a new company of any kind. However I rather pick something to work from home and keep my social life for the evenings and the weekends. It's so much more convenient than having to commute, from 10 minutes to one hour. And not be bound to 9-18.

Re: GitHub to lay off 10% and close all offices

#792

Post by indigochill »

puckerup44 wrote: post #775
acheron wrote: post #770

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being social is fine. That’s what I have real friends for. I don’t need pretend friends at work.

I always see this parroted by people on HN and it's such a pathetic stance to take. Every job I've been at I've formed close friends. My closest friends include people from every job and I don't think it's a coincidence. These friendships are just as real (and I'd argue stronger) than your "real" friends. Maybe the problem is with you and you are just somebody people don't like? Or you think you shouldn't be making f…

The reality is outside of work you pick your friends. At work, you're placed on a team with other people and you have no choice but to work with them. Sometimes they're great, but sometimes they're people you want nothing to do with, but they're on your team so you suck it up and make it work to the extent required by the job.

Over my career I've both worked with people that I've voluntarily kept in touch with after our time together ended (we even occasionally float the idea of jumping ship and going into business together) and people that drove me up the wall who I couldn't wait to get out of my life (as people, not even necessarily that they were unproductive employees, although some of them were). If I could just have less of those forced interactions due to physical proximity, then I'd have more social energy to spend on people I actually want to spend it on.

Re: GitHub to lay off 10% and close all offices

#793

Post by bambataa »

ricardobeat wrote: post #486
JasserInicide wrote: post #471

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll contend that while I've been fully taken advantage of remote work (and probably want my next job to be remote too), I still fully believe it's a long term "leading lambs to the slaughter" type of plan. Companies save big on remote in so many ways. No more offices. No more weekly happy hours (just do a company retreat every 6 months). They can now depress salaries even further because they have a wider pool from…

If that’s the case then why hasn’t the shift happened sooner?

I wonder about this too.

The UK has lower salaries than west coast US and a large pool of suitable workers.

Big tech has a presence but why haven’t they moved their main operations to the UK?

Re: GitHub to lay off 10% and close all offices

#794

Post by raffraffraff »

puckerup44 wrote: post #775
acheron wrote: post #770

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being social is fine. That’s what I have real friends for. I don’t need pretend friends at work.

I always see this parroted by people on HN and it's such a pathetic stance to take. Every job I've been at I've formed close friends. My closest friends include people from every job and I don't think it's a coincidence. These friendships are just as real (and I'd argue stronger) than your "real" friends. Maybe the problem is with you and you are just somebody people don't like? Or you think you shouldn't be making f…

I have collected work friends since 1998. Most of the time it dwindles to one or two per job, after a few years. But former colleagues now outnumber friends from primary school (1), highschool (0), college (5), sports I used to play (0), bars I drank at (0), places I used to live (3) and where I live now, ie: neighbours (6).

Should you create life-long bonds with people because of accidents of geography, or because you have chosen to spend your working life doing the same thing? Even the incidental friendships you make at the water cooler with people who just happen to be working in the same company are as valid as the ones you make when you're walking your dog.

Re: GitHub to lay off 10% and close all offices

#795

Post by Taurenking »

webology wrote: post #138
fullshark wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was the pandemic hiring spree coordinated also? Just copycat behavior the whole way through imo.

It's mostly copycat behavior. https://news.stanford.edu/2022/12/05/explains-recent-tech-la... These companies are either setting all-time profit and revenue numbers or just missing last year's all-time records. Wall Street wasn't happy that they just missed their growth targets, but keep in mind that all growth is compounded. So they have never been more profitable, and yet here we are.

[dead]

Re: GitHub to lay off 10% and close all offices

#796

Post by adammichaelc »

tempestn wrote: post #632
andrewmutz wrote: post #589

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is true: employees will be able to choose from far more options, and they will have more competition. The first phase of this is competing with anyone in the US, but soon enough companies will be hiring abroad for zoom-based jobs. If a foreign employee can work in a reasonable time-zone, and has great english language skills, what's the difference?

I think you'll see increasing numbers of Canadians working for US companies (that's already happening). Of course that's little different than hiring from areas in the US outside the major hubs. Somewhat lower average salaries, but similar skills and work habits, same time zones, etc. Expanding further, it's already the case that if you're looking for an international employee with similar skills and capabilities to…

> if you're looking for an international employee with similar skills and capabilities to a domestic one, you're going to end up paying similar to what you would domestically. You're rarely going to find someone that you can pay meaningfully less than you'd pay someone in the US (again, outside of places like the Bay area) who has a similar level of skill and ability.

I know. This is going to sound crazy.

The pay gap is still very much alive. I’ve been hiring internationally for 10 years and salaries in India and Indiana are still very far off.

A little over 10 years ago, when we were getting started, we were good at finding A Players, but paying less (otherwise we couldn’t have existed). Did work for Google, Twitter, Sandisk skunkworks, on basically magic creation. Deep OS work. We hired product builders & former startup CTO’s, engineers & designers & PhD’s, who cared about their craft.

Indiana and India still very different.

Re: GitHub to lay off 10% and close all offices

#798

Post by swexbe »

jstummbillig wrote: post #365
softwaredoug wrote: post #201

I really liked Shopify's remote model of not closing offices, but turning them into "ports" for teams in major cities to get together throughout the year for planning, team building, and retreats. You had an official place to get together, enjoy the perks of tech company offices, but with the intention of deep short bursts of interaction rather than focused work.

That seems alluring. I wonder how large of a percentage of employees would, if prompted directly, opt to have company funds directed to have "ports" in major cities, if it was entangled with their salary. Would you choose an additional 600$ a month and remote only, or would you vote for permanent variable spaces in major cities for events and team building?

Except that's a false dichotomy and that money would go to the shareholders instead.

Re: GitHub to lay off 10% and close all offices

#799

Post by shalmanese »

csharpminor wrote: post #392
toomuchtodo wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd be interested what the financial analysis looks like leasing or owning hubs vs a cadence of offsites annually remote first orgs usually hold, considering meeting space + hoteling for staff during the meet. I'll chip in for this analysis and blog post!

Most employers provision ~100sq/ft per employee. In SF real estate goes for $50-$70 per sq/ft per month. Obviously there’s negotiating that happens. You could do a lot of travel with a 5-7k budget per month. There are a ton of variables- agree more analysis is needed.

Office rentals are quoted at dollars per square foot per year so divide that number by 12 and you realize it's not that large after all.

Re: GitHub to lay off 10% and close all offices

#800

Post by code_biologist »

WorldMaker wrote: post #386
toomuchtodo wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd be interested what the financial analysis looks like leasing or owning hubs vs a cadence of offsites annually remote first orgs usually hold, considering meeting space + hoteling for staff during the meet. I'll chip in for this analysis and blog post!

That sounds like an interesting analysis, but I'm curious if this is one of those moments where economics around it will be deeply shifting over the next few years and any analysis will likely have to adjust frequently. For instance, even before the remote work shift in 2020 many cities were heavily competing on conference and hotel space allocations for an interesting variety of economic reasons (tourism dollars tha…

I'll also point out that Louisville has amazing whiskey distilleries downtown, the "urban bourbon trail". Great for hashing out tech and product disagreements!
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