Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

bloomberg.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

791–800 of 1001 posts

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#791

Post by whereistimbo »

Hah, I thought I'm totally a unique snowflake, guess what, there are A LOT of man that had similarities with me (worth noting that I'm a feminine gay man). I plan to keep becoming like this (living in my parent's home and not working at all) until, either I'm getting kicked out of home, my parents died, or I'm being forced to work. If all the comfort will be gone then I will do suicide (NO please don't lecture me about this. IT'S MY CHOICE).

My life motto: tidak ingin bersusah-payah

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#792

Post by madaxe_again »

twh270 wrote: post #648
flippinburgers wrote: post #511

Men are not doing as well as women in school. If you look in the wrong places on the internet, media, or daily life, all you see is negativity towards masculinity. In addition, there doesn't appear to be any broad social system that is geared towards supporting men. The fact that men don't tend to be a socially adept doesn't help. This all feels like the perfect storm and there are plenty of people who act like "men…

Yup. I've had many conversations about this topic with my son (and on occasion some of his friends -- both male and female), since he was in middle school (a decade ago). They're well aware of how men are portrayed versus women. We've transitioned from "A women's place is in the home (barefoot, pregnant, and cooking a delicious meal for her husband)" to "A woman's place is whatever she wants, and men are the reason f…

You say that, but bias is absolutely rife still.

In commercial and entertainment media, it’s the woman in the kitchen, buying the groceries, raising the children, and holding down a 80 hour week job at her law firm. The man is playing ball in the yard, or is doing business in a suit. He definitely expects dinner to be on the table when he gets home from his 1950’s day job.

Then there’s other people. Women get asked “when are you having a baby” and “why is your husband so thin don’t you feed him”, and men get “so what do you do?”.

Women are now in the position where they are expected to do all of the things a woman would traditionally do, and hold down a career. The expectation of men has barely shifted - I know precious few guys who do all the cooking and cleaning and child rearing.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#793

Post by madaxe_again »

throoooway wrote: post #757
twh270 wrote: post #648

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup. I've had many conversations about this topic with my son (and on occasion some of his friends -- both male and female), since he was in middle school (a decade ago). They're well aware of how men are portrayed versus women. We've transitioned from "A women's place is in the home (barefoot, pregnant, and cooking a delicious meal for her husband)" to "A woman's place is whatever she wants, and men are the reason f…

Dreading this when my sons grow up. “Hey, society and the media and politicians, institutions have all decided your nature is a problem and that you are assumed guilty, to be viewed with suspicion at all times. Oh and for some reason, you should still want to support this structure with your hard work and taxes, and shut up and never mention it.” Honestly - I don’t know why I would tell him he should accept this soci…

Nobody is saying this crap other than you, my friend, and if you decide to tell your son he’s in a persecuted minority, that’s entirely on you.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#794

Post by madaxe_again »

developer93 wrote: post #775
twh270 wrote: post #648

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup. I've had many conversations about this topic with my son (and on occasion some of his friends -- both male and female), since he was in middle school (a decade ago). They're well aware of how men are portrayed versus women. We've transitioned from "A women's place is in the home (barefoot, pregnant, and cooking a delicious meal for her husband)" to "A woman's place is whatever she wants, and men are the reason f…

Well, decades ago, men did run the world, to all intents and purposes. They're still in most positions of power (politics ceos etc), most things are designed by men, etc. This doesn't mean that it's the fault of every single man, any more than as a Brit who benefits from a legacy of empire that I'm personally responsible for whatever massacres. You can be aware of it without taking the blame.

If you’re happy and willing to take the benefits of structural inequality and its legacies, by refusing to acknowledge that being a white British male is a profound privilege, then you absolutely are to blame. You would hand on heart say that women in the U.K. are 100% equal to men?

I’m a white British male. Every time I do anything that takes advantage of my position, which is pretty much daily, I am to blame.

By paying attention to your place in society, you can try, little by little, to work against the structural and cultural biases stacked in your favour.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#795

Post by [deleted] »

cjohnson318 wrote: post #681
flippinburgers wrote: post #511

Men are not doing as well as women in school. If you look in the wrong places on the internet, media, or daily life, all you see is negativity towards masculinity. In addition, there doesn't appear to be any broad social system that is geared towards supporting men. The fact that men don't tend to be a socially adept doesn't help. This all feels like the perfect storm and there are plenty of people who act like "men…

> In addition, there doesn't appear to be any broad social system that is geared towards supporting men. What planet are you on? The whole social system is geared towards supporting men. 70% of the U.S. government is men. Most companies are owned by men. Most of the C-suite of most companies are men. Most engineers, doctors, lawyers, investors, and all other desirable, high-paying jobs are dominated by men. Just look…

[deleted]

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#796

Post by brnt »

buildingmateri wrote: post #710
flippinburgers wrote: post #511

Men are not doing as well as women in school. If you look in the wrong places on the internet, media, or daily life, all you see is negativity towards masculinity. In addition, there doesn't appear to be any broad social system that is geared towards supporting men. The fact that men don't tend to be a socially adept doesn't help. This all feels like the perfect storm and there are plenty of people who act like "men…

Especially a problem because for almost all men a career and supporting family (maybe the hardest thing to figure out in life) is non optional, whereas half the female friends I have from college have abandoned careers to saddle up to a breadwinner ... I mean I kind of want that option but men don't really have it. Does anyone ever really discuss this social reality that makes it different for men v women in real wor…

> Especially a problem because for almost all men a career and supporting family (maybe the hardest thing to figure out in life) is non optional

If you are going to let yourself be hammed in by such a traditionalist view of family and your inability (or maybe: lack of initiative) to get a footing in life, sounds like your setting yourself up as a victim.

I live and work across Europe, and I have never encountered men or women being held back like that. Couples I know stick together because they want to, not because of economic reasons or outdated economic views on family. Hell I've been holding down the fort while my wife was working. And vice versa. I mean, its 2021, our parents were hippies! My dad was out of work for half of his life but my mom not a single day.

My real world seems utterly unrelated to what these men seem to think. Perhaps they just need to get out there a bit more?

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#797

Post by shrimp_emoji »

paulcole wrote: post #677

Jesus these comments are some of the most toxic in HN history.

This all exposes the absurd, meathook barbarism encoded by our evolution and why the future rightfully belongs to our eusocial, sexless pod clone successors.

And then their cybernetic successors.

And then their post-biological, pure energy metabolism successors.

And then their singularity hive mind fusion.

Or something

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#798

Post by cjohnson318 »

mattparcens wrote: post #739
cjohnson318 wrote: post #718

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Especially a problem because for almost all men a career and supporting family (maybe the hardest thing to figure out in life) is non optional... What do you mean? Of course those are optional. If you don't want a career, you're not going to have one. If you don't want to get married and support a family, then you don't have to. I mean, "saddle up to a breadwinner" is an extremely demeaning thing to say about a who…

Potentially demeaning nomenclature aside, do men and women have a differential opportunity to [better phrase], and if not, is this fair? And while it might be nice for the men who dominate all desirable, successful professions, does this help the median man? They're all individuals, after all.

Based on my experience, I do not believe women have a better or easier "differential opportunity" when it comes to finding a partner and starting a family than men. I think "everything is easier for women because they're sexy" is an old trope that should be put to rest. Women on the whole do not want to "be sexy" any more, or less, than men do. I think women want to be taken seriously, and on their own terms, just like men.

> And while it might be nice for the men who dominate all desirable, successful professions, does this help the median man? They're all individuals, after all.

No, it doesn't. The fact that Jeff Bezos is a man or a woman does not affect my life at all. But, as a man, I have an easier time networking and working with other men in my field.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#799

Post by fighterpilot »

How much of this is due a modern abundance of addictive substances and activities, combined with men's inclination towards addiction?

Online video games, opiates, online gambling, alcohol, fast food.

Many of these are inventions of the latter 20th century, and have been optimized to be more addictive over time.

I don't think this is sufficient to explain all the effect, but perhaps it plays a role by aiding mens' escapism.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#800

Post by noduerme »

madaxe_again wrote: post #794
developer93 wrote: post #775

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, decades ago, men did run the world, to all intents and purposes. They're still in most positions of power (politics ceos etc), most things are designed by men, etc. This doesn't mean that it's the fault of every single man, any more than as a Brit who benefits from a legacy of empire that I'm personally responsible for whatever massacres. You can be aware of it without taking the blame.

If you’re happy and willing to take the benefits of structural inequality and its legacies, by refusing to acknowledge that being a white British male is a profound privilege, then you absolutely are to blame. You would hand on heart say that women in the U.K. are 100% equal to men? I’m a white British male. Every time I do anything that takes advantage of my position, which is pretty much daily, I am to blame. By pa…

I'm not sure why you assumed the poster was male (I would guess otherwise). But it doesn't sound like they're refusing to acknowledge it. Also, what does acknowledging it do? You can't exactly stop being a white British male.
Post reply on HN