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Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

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Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#791

Post by grishka »

anderspitman wrote: post #787
grishka wrote: post #784

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can download an apk and launch the package installer activity to install it. In latest versions of Android, you'll need to serve the apk through a ContentProvider. I tested this myself, it works, even if the app is updating itself. But I think you can actually still load arbitrary dex files using a ClassLoader? I thought that the update was only affecting JNI libraries. I remember reading how they wanted for any…

Yeah I misinterpreted your original comment. I was thinking in terms of the app being in control of itself ie JNI type stuff. Sounds like there are ways to do it within the Android ecosystem, but in cases where Google is suspending things wouldn't they just turn off all the self-update stuff?

Google doesn't have the technical ability to "turn off all the self-update stuff", if you mean preventing non-store apps from updating themselves by downloading and installing apks. The worst thing they can try doing is bullying the users into uninstalling the app through Google Play Protect.

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#792

Post by cbradford »

eeZah7Ux wrote: post #564
echelon wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Deplatforming is the story of the year. If we're not careful, they'll come for our individual rights next. Be it companies or the government. We need to remain vigilant and develop distributed platforms. We also need to demand that the government takes control away from corporate interests. This shouldn't happen.

Do not paint deplatforming as unequivocally bad thing. Most decentralized platforms (mastodon, IPFS, XMPP, Matrix...) have mechanisms to block and defederate unwanted accounts/contents/servers: racism and hate speech, CP, spam, malware Many people don't want government-driven censorship but are very happy with community-driven policies and guidelines.

Once you throw in "hate speech" you are just saying that censorship of things you don't like is ok.

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#793

Post by altano »

panarky wrote: post #785
tabbott wrote: post #702

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm really upset that this happened to you folks, and it's scary, because incident could just as easily have happened to us at Zulip (or any other OSS app that connects to self-hosted servers!). I expect we'll never get a useful explanation from Google for why this incident happened -- abuse teams, like fraud teams, are worried about the bad guys using the explanations to tune their tactics and so tend to never expla…

If you accept that (1) there is a substantial amount of mal-content that Google should censor, and (2) a key use case for federated messaging platforms is to evade censorship, and that (3) client applications can be functionally part of a federated messaging platform while legally separate from it, then those client applications are fair game to be censored when they deliver mal-content. Now I may disagree with parts…

By the way, “malcontent” (no hyphen) is an English word that doesn’t mean “bad content” or “malicious content” like you’re intending.

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#794

Post by soupbowl »

tomstockmail wrote: post #762
uncoder0 wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You, like Parler, have been targeted by the powers that be. You may have nothing else in common other than that but, you're in the same boat it seems.

I don't agree with OP here but I've found a lot of people from the Parler/Gab crowd have found Matrix lack of content moderation appealing and have been in channels on the Matrix directory that have all the same content as Parler/Gab. I would recommend the Matrix team start taking content moderation more seriously as my experience is they do not take it seriously. They may want to disable room creation on matrix.org…

Can you give me an example of the things you have seen on matrix that should be moderated? Should matrix devs limit the amount of people that can use their open federated network so they can afford to moderate every e2ee group chat around the globe?

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#795

Post by sammorrowdrums »

panarky wrote: post #785
tabbott wrote: post #702

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm really upset that this happened to you folks, and it's scary, because incident could just as easily have happened to us at Zulip (or any other OSS app that connects to self-hosted servers!). I expect we'll never get a useful explanation from Google for why this incident happened -- abuse teams, like fraud teams, are worried about the bad guys using the explanations to tune their tactics and so tend to never expla…

If you accept that (1) there is a substantial amount of mal-content that Google should censor, and (2) a key use case for federated messaging platforms is to evade censorship, and that (3) client applications can be functionally part of a federated messaging platform while legally separate from it, then those client applications are fair game to be censored when they deliver mal-content. Now I may disagree with parts…

That would presumably include Chrome and https and enabling use through VPNs?

The above are use daily for extremist content, CP, circumventing numerous national laws in numerous places...

Hard to draw the line.

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#796

Post by ufmace »

m12k wrote: post #309
avereveard wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

should have built your own phone with your own store - hn hivemind

Can we just please pass some legislation to break Google and Apple's app installation monopoly already? Sure, they built the phones, doesn't mean we can't demand more rights than they decide it's profitable to give us (or put another way, just because the king's ancestors founded the country doesn't mean we shouldn't demand freedom and democracy).

Fat chance. Have you seen the way politics is going these days? It's far more likely that they'll pass legislation to do the opposite - bar anyone from making, using, or distributing a communication system that can't be monitored and censored by Trusted Authorities.

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#797

Post by o-__-o »

rglullis wrote: post #772
o-__-o wrote: post #738

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But. The point is still that you can run your own non-federated signal server or connect your own client to their federated network.

An outdated version of the server whose development team has no incentive whatsoever of supporting for your use case. Can you run it? Sure. Should you?

Why does any source code exist then? What is the point of GitHub with codebases that are 7+ years old? Would mass adoption of the outdated server force updates or god forbid a fork of the code base?

Please excuse me for being direct, I do not accept your defeatist attitude on this one. You won’t have stickers, such a shame, but you would have the ability to create your own signal service

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#798

Post by indymike »

Shared404 wrote: post #395
Thorentis wrote: post #317

This is basically the last straw for me. The past week has made it perfectly clear that Big Tech will close the circle and protect their own. Anything that appears to be censorship resistant, that allows the little guy to get ahead and compete, or that allows individuals to have greater levels of privacy and freedom, will be shut down and de-platformed. As was predicted in 1948, "hate speech" has just become a smoke…

> I had a lot of faith in. I wouldn't give up faith in Matrix yet. Remember, there are other clients, and there is always the Element web client.

I suspect that Google will eventually get Matrix clients right. It's really no different than an email client or web browser. Element is *not* a content community it's a communication client app. As a customer, I do not want Google regulating my communication software clients for content. That is my job as a user.

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#799

Post by m4rtink »

Shared404 wrote: post #758
m4rtink wrote: post #626

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is often no longer an issue thanks to Flatpak & Steam Proton built-in Windows emulation.

In addition, there's a significant subset of people who's only program they use is a web browser. This is obviously quite doable with basically any distro.

Yes, while this has issues of its own (as long as the web services they are using are centralized and corporate controlled) I have observed the less technical users I have been helping with computer issues are totally happy as long as they sit in front of a computer with a web browser, where they can log in to their online accounts and get going.

Some might want a full mail client and possibly a printer configured and that's about it.

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#800

Post by zepto »

tpxl wrote: post #484
teddyh wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like this one? https://pureos.net/ Running on a phone: https://puri.sm/products/librem-5/

Pinephone for a cheaper, less performant alternative: https://pine64.com/product-category/pinephone/?v=0446c16e2e6...

Unfortunately (since otherwise I’d be using one) both are unusable as practical replacements for Android or iOS.
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