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Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

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Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#791

Post by dustinmoris »

wickedsickeune wrote: post #783
dustinmoris wrote: post #698

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Personally, I would argue that consumers should have a legal right to install whatever software they wish on a product they have purchased, including onto the bundled operating system I fundamentally disagree and this is also a misrepresentation of the current situation. If I buy an open operating system which advertises that I can run on it what pleases me then I should have the right to carry out this freedom of…

> if a company advertises a product as a walled garden, specifically claims that one of the things it does is to vet and prohibit apps which violate their guidelines Could you please show me such an advertisement? I do not really follow Apple, and have failed to encounter it. Further, what if I'm a user, who wants to purchase the hardware (and even operating system), but does not want the added security. Mind you tha…

> Further, what if I'm a user, who wants to purchase the hardware (and even operating system), but does not want the added security. Mind you that Apple has their own CPU and OS which is unlike anything in the competition.

Tough luck my friend. I mean only because you want something unreasonable doesn't make it a right.

Example:

What if I want to buy the engine of a Ferrari but not pay the price for a Ferrari and just have it inside a Volkswagen?

The answer to that is also tough luck. You want a Ferrari engine, well it only comes in a bloody Ferrari so either buy the whole thing and then mod it yourself or tough luck. Same for Apple hardware. If you want just want one piece then you'll have to buy the whole thing and mod it yourself.

Nothing in this world gives you a right to have all your wishes fulfilled by others.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#792

Post by pferde »

hijklmno wrote: post #711
pferde wrote: post #706

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What monopoly? Nobody is forcing you to buy Apple and enter into their rotten walled garden. If you "pay damn much and buy the phone", you are doing it of your own volition. "Take the power back" by not continuing to give them your money.

Take the money back and go where? Live in a hut? It's such enabling behaviors that embolden these elitists to lord over our lives. You can't let anyone be a gatekeeper to technology and progress. This applies to every major tech player. And this is the time that we need to make our voices heard.

Yes, sure, make your voice heard, fight against the abuses, that can only help.

But at the same time, do not pretend that there are not any alternatives. Yes, perhaps those alternatives are not as convenient, but choosing them over the "wrong" choice should be an equal part of the fight.

And "Live in a hut"? Please do not be overly maudlin. We are talking consumer electronics here - something that is still considered luxury - not fundamental philosophies of life or economic models of society.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#793

Post by ace_of_spades »

mutecipher wrote: post #501
ace_of_spades wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let‘s take the example of an autonomous car. Would you also argue that you have the right to run any software on it? Looking a bit further down the line toward a society with more prevalent and powerful AI there will need to be some kind of certification that the software you are running is safe. It will be almost impossible to enforce this without the help of device manufacturers who will be mandated to only run saf…

Apple already has a similar practice in place for desktop apps with Notarization, does it not? I don’t see how we can’t get to a point where we have something similar for iOS. They can limit the APIs they have access to and the User has the choice.

The question is if all computing platform should be forced to offer this possibility or not. I don‘t think it‘s clear cut and some kind of „vetted“ side loading seems like one possible solution. You would still need to expect to pay Apple for the vetting, though.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#794

Post by everfree »

dustinmoris wrote: post #698
mapgrep wrote: post #198

You could argue about Apple's rights, or citizens' free speech rights, or consumer rights, under existing law. It would be an interesting discussion because I think it's a lot more complicated an issue that most people appreciate. But really why not talk about how we think things should work on platforms like iOS? What should the law be? What protects essential human rights, encourages creativity, and allows business…

> Personally, I would argue that consumers should have a legal right to install whatever software they wish on a product they have purchased, including onto the bundled operating system I fundamentally disagree and this is also a misrepresentation of the current situation. If I buy an open operating system which advertises that I can run on it what pleases me then I should have the right to carry out this freedom of…

> It's like saying I bought a petrol car but I should have a legal right to fill it up with Diesel or make it work with electricity. It's illogical.

A much more apt analogy would be a Keurig machine that's only designed to take official k-cups, and your legal right to make it work with off-brand k-cups.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#795

Post by grey-area »

gwd wrote: post #742
grey-area wrote: post #688

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A big part of the value of iPhones and iPads is that you don't have to worry about installing an app that screws up your system and requires a wipe & reinstall. Security doesn't require a 30% cut of every transaction though, nor does it require them to ban other payment methods. Apple should be forced to compete on a level playing field, rather than leveraging their platform to bully other companies into compliance.

> Security doesn't require a 30% cut of every transaction though How do you think that the iOS platform is paid for? Apple's current business model is supported by paying the Apple Tax. If they don't get that tax revenue, they're going to have to either reduce the quality of their platform, or get more revenue somewhere else, like selling my data to advertising companies. Right now I have a choice to buy a phone whos…

By a small part of that 30% cut, maybe 1% processing fees, a few % on infrastructure and staffing for moderation etc. The rest is profit built on a monopoly which should be regulated.

Perhaps Apple should give the court an accounting of what it costs to run.

The onerous terms forbid (among other things) pricing differently on the app store.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#796

Post by blackoil »

dustinmoris wrote: post #698
mapgrep wrote: post #198

You could argue about Apple's rights, or citizens' free speech rights, or consumer rights, under existing law. It would be an interesting discussion because I think it's a lot more complicated an issue that most people appreciate. But really why not talk about how we think things should work on platforms like iOS? What should the law be? What protects essential human rights, encourages creativity, and allows business…

> Personally, I would argue that consumers should have a legal right to install whatever software they wish on a product they have purchased, including onto the bundled operating system I fundamentally disagree and this is also a misrepresentation of the current situation. If I buy an open operating system which advertises that I can run on it what pleases me then I should have the right to carry out this freedom of…

If a company informs in advance, a job of 12 hours a day paying less then minimum wages, should they be allowed to hire people against it?

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#797

Post by imtringued »

0xy wrote: post #505
ulfw wrote: post #491

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A PR stunt from Epic and everyone's falling for it.

A PR stunt that consumers and small businesses could benefit from. 30% decimates indie studios and makes some apps fiscally nonviable.

Apple must charge some fees so even with a 15% cut there is almost no difference in how much return you get from your app unless you have a high enough sales volume. Indies don't care about the cut because they don't get enough sales in the first place. Indies mostly focus on surviving, not about how to optimize their margin.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#798

Post by shrimpx »

AdrianB1 wrote: post #741
shrimpx wrote: post #729

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is such a tough issue because you could argue zuckerberg is taking this exact stance when he refuses to moderate harmful content because they’re a “mere platform”. From that perspective you could see Apple as selling you “the whole end to end experience” and therefore taking responsibility for and curating all of it. So what do we want? What’s more evil and harmful? Pure platforms and their obliviousness as to g…

It is not tough at all: your hardware and your OS are oblivious of good vs. bad and you want it to be that way. Why not a platform? You want Microsoft to curate your apps? Then why FB to do it for the content you can see? You should make the choices, not others make it for you.

Not so fast. The hardware was mediated to be “safe” in various ways by the manufacturer and regulating bodies. It’s within accepted radiation levels, it’s highly unlikely to explode in your face or set your house on fire when you charge it. And this brings up the crucial thing: it’s because (a) unsafe devices would wreak havoc on society at scale and (b) you wouldn’t be able to/want to do this verification by yourself. You could choose to forego verification, as in “I choose this device safe or unsafe it’s my choice” but overall this is probably reckless as an effect on society, so it’s therefore regulated and your choice is disallowed. Software is in more of a gray area and you could more easily believe you can verify it. But if a piece of software threatened to wreck society, ultimately society will bring it under control. Facebook is incidentally a highly efficient propaganda targeting system that does threaten to enable bad players to wreck societies. I think the correct answer is case by case in a vast gray area between the extremes.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#799

Post by celticninja »

tommymachine wrote: post #768
hijklmno wrote: post #696

It's not Apple vs. Fortnite. It's actually Apple vs. Users. Apple has been taking us for a ride this whole time. We pay damn much and buy the phone. It is the user's property from then on. What the user install's and uninstall's from his phone should be his decision. Taking a cut of say, 3%, to keep the app store running is forgivable. But 30% digging into users pocket is unpardonable. Apple is no longer the underdog…

I like the 30% cut for the App Store. It provides them incentive to promote & sell apps, and make sure the App Store is a smooth experience for users, & a profitable one for developers. It’s certainly healthy, if on the high side. But I’d sure rather have a healthy app ecosystem than an unhealthy one. The problem with them experimenting with lowering the rate is once its lowered, imagine the fuss which would ensue if…

30% of subscriptions/coin purchases is too much. Possibly warranted for actual app sales due to the review process, but after the app is sold 30% of every subsequent payment is a protection racket.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#800

Post by blackoil »

dustinmoris wrote: post #791
wickedsickeune wrote: post #783

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if a company advertises a product as a walled garden, specifically claims that one of the things it does is to vet and prohibit apps which violate their guidelines Could you please show me such an advertisement? I do not really follow Apple, and have failed to encounter it. Further, what if I'm a user, who wants to purchase the hardware (and even operating system), but does not want the added security. Mind you tha…

> Further, what if I'm a user, who wants to purchase the hardware (and even operating system), but does not want the added security. Mind you that Apple has their own CPU and OS which is unlike anything in the competition. Tough luck my friend. I mean only because you want something unreasonable doesn't make it a right. Example: What if I want to buy the engine of a Ferrari but not pay the price for a Ferrari and jus…

If Ferrari and Volkswagen are only two companies in world and Ferrari disallows changing Radio and Car Seat without authorization from company. I would say screw them, law should prohibit this. If you don't like the law you are free to go sale somewhere else.
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