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We are Google employees – Google must drop Dragonfly

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Re: We are Google employees – Google must drop Dragonfly

#791

Post by int_19h »

manigandham wrote: post #698
electrograv wrote: post #513

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps concerns about 'the over-militarization of police' is essentially a concern for situations where an extreme power imbalance exists between police and civilians, creating a much higher risk of totalitarian abuse and oppression by police in situations where the police force in question becomes corrupt or 'bad' in some way. (Disclaimer: I'm not making an anti-LEO argument; quite the contrary, I'm very pro-LEO, a…

Civilians can buy heavily armored vehicles, yes. They can also buy military vehicles, provided they are certified (like not carrying weapons) but it is definitely possible to be rolling around in a MRAP style machine completely legally.

You can buy armored vehicles with many kinds of weapons, too. But then you'll need to register them as destructive devices with ATF, pay the NFA tax etc.

Look up "The Big Sandy Shoot" on YouTube. All vehicles and artillery pieces you see there are privately owned.

Re: We are Google employees – Google must drop Dragonfly

#792

Post by int_19h »

tomschlick wrote: post #702
sdenton4 wrote: post #633

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm not sure diplomacy works when someone is actively shooting at you or other people. Most of the time, police aren't being shot at. And they tend to react to peaceful protest exactly as if it were a riot. This is well documented. Here's an example I was present for: Peaceful protest at the university. Cops in riot gear show up, fly around in helicopters, etc. One of the cops pushes/bumps a girl who then bounces i…

> Most of the time Key phrase there. We expect our police to be equipped for any situation. So what happens when something like the North Hollywood shooting happens again and you have pinned cops/civilians? In that case officers had to commandeer actual money trucks and raid gun shops to get the equipment they needed to stop the shooters. > Here's an example I was present for If that's true then I'm all for punishmen…

If they only used that stuff when called for, that would be nice.

In practice, most of the time, all that gear is used to serve no-knock warrants on non-violent offenders (usually involving drugs).

Maryland used to publish statistics for their use of SWAT teams; look that up, and note the breakdown on kinds of circumstances they were called in for, and whether it was no-knock or not. No-knock generally means busting doors and sometimes ramming walls (with those very MRAPs), throwing flashbangs etc.

Re: We are Google employees – Google must drop Dragonfly

#793

Post by int_19h »

tomschlick wrote: post #597
briandear wrote: post #573

Earlier quoted context omitted.

However, the French Gendarmes are a paramilitary police force. It’s part of the French military and under interior ministry control. Does France have concerns about this military-style police force? Just saying militarization is a “bad idea,” seems to be an opinion based on emotion rather than facts. It seems like any police force can be bad or good; the militarization doesn’t seem to have much to do with that. Frenc…

Exactly. Even NYC has the "Hercules" team which is effectively a SWAT team that shows up at high risk locations as a show of force to deter terrorism. Last time I was in Time Square some of them were lining up for photos with the general public. The crowd seemed pretty at ease knowing that if shit went down those guys were there to stop it.

In most cities in US, SWAT and local police are the same people wearing slightly different uniforms. This is not so in Europe, where there's a clear distinction between beat cops (who don't get MRAPs) and special forces.

Re: We are Google employees – Google must drop Dragonfly

#794

Post by int_19h »

bduerst wrote: post #557
Puer wrote: post #38

I considered working at Google last year after a recruiter reached out to me, but their decision to backtrack on their promise in China changed my mind. I do not morally condemn anyone who works at Google. I have many good friends that are both bright engineers and undeniably good people that work there. I just feel that as someone who's family is Taiwanese, I cannot in good consciousness support the company. I let t…

Would you still work for Amazon? Microsoft? Apple? Facebook? Because they are actually in China and give concessions to the government.

There's a big difference between operating a business in China in general, and operating a business that necessarily involves implementing their surveillance infrastructure.

Re: We are Google employees – Google must drop Dragonfly

#795

Post by Buge »

int_19h wrote: post #794
bduerst wrote: post #557

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you still work for Amazon? Microsoft? Apple? Facebook? Because they are actually in China and give concessions to the government.

There's a big difference between operating a business in China in general, and operating a business that necessarily involves implementing their surveillance infrastructure.

And Bing doesn't, while Dragonfly does?

Re: We are Google employees – Google must drop Dragonfly

#796

Post by shard972 »

aibrahem wrote: post #136

As someone who lived most of his life in a dictatorship, I really struggle to understand the logic of these employees. I was actually surprised Google stepped out of China a couple of years ago and felt like the decision was taken by a bunch of people who don't understand what it's like to live in a non-democratic country. Do they think that everybody in China cares that their internet is censored or that they're bei…

No because we (Americans in Silicon Valley) know what is best for the Chinese people better than the Chinese people themselves.

We live in a free market democracy, how about we respect that from time to time.

Re: We are Google employees – Google must drop Dragonfly

#797

Post by shard972 »

mrhappyunhappy wrote: post #601
lappet wrote: post #576

I have a counter question - what about Google's support to the US Government? Have people forgotten the PRISM project? The US Government has backdoors at almost every big tech company.

People have forgotten. Hey, as long as our searches are not censored!! In all seriousness, I find this current dragonfly outcry ridiculous when you consider the NSA dragnet that’s currently monitoring most if not all US web traffic.

Because data collection is purely for out protection and maybe to help us shop from time to time.

Censorship is just evil, full stop.

Re: We are Google employees – Google must drop Dragonfly

#798

Post by sneak »

partiallypro wrote: post #453

I find the Google/Chinese search engine troubling, but I do think people are playing this up to be a lot more than it should be. I think one fact is that Google is in an area and recruits people that are hyper liberal individuals. For example: not wanting to work with the U.S. military on projects, having AI use gender neutral writing, random PC things, little diversity in political thought etc. I don't think Google…

Declining to work with paid murderers is not a partisan position.

Opposing sexism is not a partisan position.

Attempting to reframe these sorts of things as “lefty silliness” and paint them with the same brush as being sad and disappointed that a rapist won the election is simply subterfuge.

Re: We are Google employees – Google must drop Dragonfly

#800

Post by sullyj3 »

pompousprick wrote: post #755
petee wrote: post #741

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish more people knew that workers fought and died for those rights. Its one thing to say maybe you'll quit, or skip your pay check for change, its another to actually put your life on the line for what you know is right.

Since China is known for its countless human rights violations, Are these Google employees also going to... 1. Give up their Chinese-Manufactured iPhones/Android Phones? Tablets? Laptops and workstations?? 2. Give up watching movies/shows on their Chinese-manufactured TVs?? 3. Stop wearing Chinese-made iwatches/fitbits/etc.?? 4. Boycott silicon valley startups that have accepted chinese investments? 5. Boycott every…

"You're not allowed to do anything good ever if you're not already a maximally good person. That would make you a hypocrite, which is way worse than someone who doesn't do anything to help in the first place."
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