Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM • Hacker News Board

Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#781

Post by winterbourne » Sat, May 30, 2026, 5:45 AM UTC

valleyer wrote: post #16

ceejayoz wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Preparing for the SAT requires a book and an internet connection. Sports frequently just requires a ball or a place to run. In both scenarios, you can still purchase better equipment/training. There are very expensive, effective SAT prep options out there for the wealthy.

Your analogy works against you, given that tons of professional athletes come from poverty.

Agreed. Professional sports are the closest institution that society has to a meritocracy. Highly competitive, public, obsessively measured and analyzed. A tenth of a second faster sprint time might be more valuable than even a top-tier socioeconomic background.

Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#782

Post by tptacek » Sat, May 30, 2026, 5:45 AM UTC

fsckboy wrote: post #778

tptacek wrote: post #766

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm really not all that interested in whatever this is. You made an objective claim about the science that is false. That's all I care about.

[flagged]

I don't see where any of these things you're talking about appear on this thread. I see you claiming a "strong genetic correlation" for IQ, and then presenting as your citation Richard Plomin --- look him up --- presenting a not-strong correlation. I point that out, and then you demand a citation for me. My citation is the post you provided.

This doesn't seem complicated.

Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#783

Post by mvdtnz » Sat, May 30, 2026, 6:03 AM UTC

zahlman wrote: post #671

zahlman wrote: post #512

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The politics were mostly fine, but the students, especially those post-COVID, were the problem. I'm not sure this distinction can be made, really. > And don't get me started on the false disability claims (see [0] for a taste). If you even verbalize questioning one, you're eligible for discrimination. Case in point. It's exactly because of the politics both that the students feel empowered to make those claims, and…

For those who downvoted without comment: how did I say anything disagreeable, untrue, or otherwise meriting a downvote?

I downvoted you because you're very obviously one of these "disabled" zoomers who's arguing for the whole concept without bringing any actual arguments.

Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#784

Post by parpfish » Sat, May 30, 2026, 6:05 AM UTC

SoftTalker wrote: post #199

make3 wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

blackboards in uni where you can't do anything but just rewrite everything the prof is writing is a nightmarish waste of time, especially for anyone with any kind of attention difficulties please remove the devices from the students but provide slides

If you have attention difficulties perhaps uni isn't the place for you.

as somebody with attention difficulties... every college/gradschool lecture i've ever attended has been:

1. pay attention for the first 5-10 minutes. I'm really going to try this time!

2. hear something interesting, and your mind starts wandering

3. uhoh, i have no idea what the lecture is talking about now. i'll just keep daydreaming. don't even think about raisigin your hand to ask a question because it'll reveal that you haven't been listening.

4. go home and read the textbook to figure learn the content

Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#785

Post by trimethylpurine » Sat, May 30, 2026, 6:14 AM UTC

ziofill wrote: post #708

I can’t help comparing this to the system I grew up in (Italy), which is vastly different and it seemingly produces very good graduates. University was free and there was no test for enrolling in STEM degrees, and you could retry exams every semester as much as you wanted to. But goddamit exams were HARD and if you weren’t prepared enough you would keep failing until you gave up. We weren’t entitled because we weren’…

> "(Italy) seemingly produces very good graduates"

Last I looked, China and the US account for 18/20 major contributions to chemistry annually in the last 8+ years and the US was leading for a decade before 2018.

IUPAC works to keep exams international so you can't just say Americans are dumb. They are taking the same exams and the failing is permanent, not forgiven. So it's even harder to succeed in the US compared with Italy, based on your description.

Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#786

Post by [deleted] » Sat, May 30, 2026, 6:22 AM UTC

[deleted]

Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#787

Post by try-working » Sat, May 30, 2026, 6:23 AM UTC

ziofill wrote: post #708

I can’t help comparing this to the system I grew up in (Italy), which is vastly different and it seemingly produces very good graduates. University was free and there was no test for enrolling in STEM degrees, and you could retry exams every semester as much as you wanted to. But goddamit exams were HARD and if you weren’t prepared enough you would keep failing until you gave up. We weren’t entitled because we weren’…

I studied engineering in Sweden. One of our courses had an 80% failure rate. A world of difference from Harvard where the average grade is A.

Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#788

Post by LtWorf » Sat, May 30, 2026, 6:38 AM UTC

jrumbut wrote: post #697

ethbr1 wrote: post #523

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Multiple things can be true, because the goal is to optimize in aggregate. - Some teachers are bad (and some students will have them) - Overriding teachers with policies intended to control the bad ones impairs and burns out the others Consequently, the reasonable path is somewhere in the middle. Create feedback systems designed to identify and weed out the worse teachers* and avoid overloading everyone else with out…

> identify and weed out the worse teachers By and large, everyone knows. Data might be useful to tell you "hey that longtime great teacher approaching retirement has checked out early" or "the new hire who was struggling last semester has turned the corner" but it's no secret in a school building which teacher everyone hates and which one everyone loves. If you woke up tomorrow and discovered you were an elementary s…

> By and large, everyone knows.

For elementary school they absolutely do not know.

In my town the most acclaimed teachers were those organising many recitals with the kids and stuff like that.

Except that 20 years later parents were saying to the strict ones that just taught the material how good they were.

So yeah everybody knows. Not immediately though!

Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#789

Post by Danox » Sat, May 30, 2026, 6:39 AM UTC

hedora wrote: post #250

scarmig wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That mistakes the point of education. Schools do not exist to fix every social problem, and demanding they treat fixing every social problem as their number one priority is how we got into this mess of "teach nothing but make sure everyone passes" in the first place.

Yes, but back when California was poorer, it had some of the best schools in the nation. Now that it's richer, the schools are collapsing, so it's really hard to argue that systematic social problems are the root cause.

in comparison to what part of the country because if you have kids, you probably want to be somewhere on the West Coast or somewhere in the northeast if you want your kids to have a better education most of the best schools secondary are in those two areas, and if you are different, speak another language there are whole areas of the country. You definitely don’t want to be in if you have kids.

Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#790

Post by rahimnathwani » Sat, May 30, 2026, 6:40 AM UTC

isityettime wrote: post #762

rahimnathwani wrote: post #363

"In 11th grade, the most relevant grade relating to college readiness, 30.5% of students met or exceeded math learning standards. Of these, nearly half exceeded the learning standard — marking them as likely to be the best prepared for a college STEM major." You can see this 30.5% in the 'grade 11' chart on this page: https://tools.encona.com/caaspp-explorer#slots=state&s=math Politicians in California want the ethni…

> Politicians in California want the ethnic mix of students at public universities to reflect the ethnic mix of the state population. They cannot achieve this goal if colleges use academic preparedness as the main factor in admissions That's a satisfiable goal, but it means they have to accept that they need extremely broad and deep remedial courses, and they need to treat admissions more or less like a community col…

The politicians don't accept that students need remedial courses.

They passed AB705 and AB1705 to prevent a community college from putting someone in a remedial classes unless it had very strong evidence they wouldn't be able to pass a regular (transfer-level) class.

So if you go to a community college and intend to study for a STEM degree, you'll be placed in a calculus class.