The real truth is that politicians promised that refugees would help fill jobs. Raising the retirement age makes no sense if that was really the goal. Now their lies are obvious.
Denmark to raise retirement age to 70
781–790 of 1001 posts
Re: Denmark to raise retirement age to 70
#782Earlier quoted context omitted.
Part of the deal with progress should be that we all start working less. If not is the progress all that attractive? Improved health so we can all work more is kinda stupid.
That's been happening, but not as quickly as earlier generations expected. In 1970, the average labor force participant (employed or unemployed) in Denmark worked 1845 hours. By 2022, the number had fallen to 1371 hours. The numbers are similar for most West European countries but not for East Europe or the US.
> "By 2022, the number had fallen to 1371 hours. The numbers are similar for most West European countries"
In France it is officially 1607 hours per year, but it could be legally much higher and the mean duration is 1 679 hours. From Eurostat, in 2021 the mean duration in Germany was 1 769 hours and 1 923 hours in Italy.
Re: Denmark to raise retirement age to 70
#783Earlier quoted context omitted.
maybe you don't like it to be called a Ponzi scheme, but the reality is that it is one. Definition of a Ponzi scheme: A Ponzi scheme is an investment fraud that pays existing investors with funds collected from new investor. Ponzi scheme organizers often promise to invest your money and generate high returns with little or no risk. But in many Ponzi schemes, the fraudsters do not invest the money. Instead, they use i…
It's not a fraud. How can you say so? Also, the first pensioners didn't invest in the system. There isn't even a concept of investment in old-age social welfare, unlike other pensions. It's also not a pyramid scheme, since the structure is upside down, and there is no recruitment. Calling it something else than it is, only to taint the system and its receivers by associating it with a criminal undertaking is bad fait…
I just quoted the definition of a Ponzi scheme, hence the word "fraud". The definition of a fraud is "... fraud is intentional deception ... to gain from a victim ... unfairly" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraud - maybe this gives another perspective what a fraud can be?..
> the first pensioners didn't invest in the system
I agree with you .. I suppose you're making my point here?
> It's also not a pyramid scheme, since the structure is upside down
The structure would be upside down if the demography was growing as expected - and that's the core of the issue, why governments have to extend the age of the retirement: the burden of the pensions is becoming unbearable relative to the amount of active people.
> there is no recruitment.
No indeed, though if you decide to live in Denmark, you are not recruited, you're forcefully enrolled in this scheme.
> ... to taint ... its receivers by associating it with a criminal undertaking is bad faith
There is no "criminal undertaking" here, the system is simply broken and you're saying things I didn't - I certainly don't blame the current pensioners, nor the active generation working for these pensioners - they are all victims of this system.
Re: Denmark to raise retirement age to 70
#784Earlier quoted context omitted.
There is nothing sad about this. Mandatory pensions are not a vacation sponsored by the government but a way to provide for those who can't provide for themselves. If you were born in the 70s, you should have known for most of your adult life that your normal retirement age is likely going to be around 70. The demographic situation is not new, the solutions have been discussed extensively since at least the 90s, and…
pensions can be whatever we decide as a society agree they should be. Your perspective is an opinion, and many people share it, it has been a dominant view for decades, but it has never been a universal view.
There is a solution for young people they should look at this demographic disaster and realise they need to have children for the sake of their own future. Meanwhile the next generation or two to retire is going to have a very grim time surviving because we had two kids or none, compared to the five our parents had.
Re: Denmark to raise retirement age to 70
#785This is truly sad. As a Swede I fear my country may follow suite. The retirement age in Sweden used to be 65 and now it's 67. Looking at older people around me, most lead a much less active life after 75. So, if we were lucky we used to have some 10 good years of doing whatever we wanted before old age and age-related diseases start affecting us so much we become limited to a much smaller world. But now we have maybe…
consider what humans did before society. they followed herds of ruminant animals and hunted them. they were working 90% of their waking hours. their work was their lives. but at night they would spend a few hours looking at the stars. what we have now is pretty similar. except instead of stars we have screens. i would say life is ok if you can read something interesting every day and have a job that you enjoy. i woul…
> they were working 90% of their waking hours. their work was their lives.
This is not true at all. A quick google for “hunter gatherer work hours” would tell you that they worked far less than we do today. 2-5 hours of what we would define as work a day, with the rest being mainly leisure.
Re: Denmark to raise retirement age to 70
#786Earlier quoted context omitted.
It’s the other way around: a few decades ago people retired only a few years earlier, had 5-10 years of retirement and then died. Now people live way longer, but the retirement age never got adjusted properly to the new reality. So 15-20 years of retirement is the new normal. In addition, way fewer young payers for the now old.
Also the actual pension payments have gone up massively. Almost doubled in the last 30 years in the UK. https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/pensioners-incomes-...
So has inflation, and the cost of living.
Re: Denmark to raise retirement age to 70
#787Earlier quoted context omitted.
Who says that? Because that’s not the prevailing opinion among me (soon 40), my friends snd my family. Benefits from «stuff» caps off ar a certain level. After that you want to work less so you have more time to, among other things, actually enjoy your stuff. The exception to this are wealth chasers with multiple yachts etc., but that isn’t «we», that’s a tiny tiny sliver of the elite.
Assuming your country is similar to Norway: 1) Unions say it when they always demand increased salary (= focus on private spending) rather than reduced working hours 2) Voters say it when the right and far right is polling high. Lower taxes = wish for higher private spending, if people are going to work less then tax rate must up for society to function as public expenditure will increase, not decrease, with lots of…
I don't want fewer working hours. I want to make enough money so I don't have to work for a few years.
Re: Denmark to raise retirement age to 70
#788Earlier quoted context omitted.
“Older drivers have 3 to 20 times higher risk of fatal crash than non-older drivers” [1]. We simply don’t have those data for roofers. [1] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S01674...
I think OP was saying that it's riskier for OTHERS in traffic - which should be the main thing with reissuing a drivers license. Like motorcycles are orders of magnitude higher risk for (including fatal) accidents - but they aren't as dangerous for other traffic participants so they get licensed. If motorcycles were killing orders of magnitude more pedestrians or other traffic participants than cars they would get ba…
> OP was saying that it's riskier for OTHERS in traffic - which should be the main thing with reissuing a drivers license
My point is whether it’s others who are dying is irrelevant. We have evidence of increased mortality with age for driving. I’m not seeing similar evidence for roofing. If geriatric roofers were constantly falling to their deaths, we’d see a movement to regulate them, even if they’re falling on flowers and not people.
Re: Denmark to raise retirement age to 70
#789Earlier quoted context omitted.
Part of the deal with progress should be that we all start working less. If not is the progress all that attractive? Improved health so we can all work more is kinda stupid.
> Part of the deal with progress should be that we all start working less. If not is the progress all that attractive? But we don't want to work less, we want more stuff.
Rent is a fixed expense that keeps rising. Therefore there is a minimum amount of work you need to do that keeps rising even if you want nothing.
Re: Denmark to raise retirement age to 70
#790Realistically, what are countries supposed to do? Almost every single industrialized country has a birth rate below replacement, so there's fewer younger people to help carry the burdens. Medical care means the elderly live on and on and on, draining enormous costs as they age. I'm not trying to be cruel, but from a pure numbers sense it makes perfect sense. Would you prefer taxes go up instead? Lessen spending on in…
Shouldn't expenses be proportional to population size? If not so, then spend less? Birth rate below replacement doesn't mean population size is not enough to pay for expenses, it just means it will slowly decrease, which btw is good, we are definitely too many. In nature only bi-sexual reproduction is capable of reducing population size when needed, that is a very good indicator that when resources become scarce, only those who can reduce their population size can survive, otherwise we would reproduce by binary fission.