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FBI arrests judge accused of helping man evade immigration authorities

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Re: FBI arrests judge accused of helping man evade immigration authorities

#781

Post by hayst4ck »

lolinder wrote: post #721
Animats wrote: post #602

A key point here, which the judge brought up with the ICE agents, is that they only had an "administrative warrant".[1] An “ICE warrant” is not a real warrant. It is not reviewed by a judge or any neutral party to determine if it is based on probable cause. "An immigration officer from ICE or CBP may not enter any nonpublic areas—or areas that are not freely accessible to the public and hence carry a higher expectati…

Another key point is that generally speaking the charge of obstruction of justice requires two ingredients: 1) knowledge of a government proceeding 2) action with intent to interfere with that proceeding It doesn't especially matter in this case whether ICE was entitled to enter the courtroom because she's not being charged for refusing to allow them entry to the room. The allegation is that upon finding out about th…

This is the constitutional crisis.

You are taking ICE's/the administration's perspective and assuming it is cogent which leads you to conclusion that doesn't support justice and instead supports the end of constitutional rule in the US.

The administration is in open violation of supreme court rulings and the law. They have repeatedly shown contempt for the constitution. They have repeatedly assumed their own supremacy. People responsible for enforcement are out of sync with those responsible for due process and legal interpretation. That is true crisis. These words are simple, but the emotional impact should be chilling. When considering the actions of the ICE agents, it seems very reasonable that aiding or abetting them would be an even greater obstruction of justice if not directly aiding and abetting illegal activity.

America is being confronted with a very serious problem. What happens when those responsible for enforcing the law break it or start enforcing "alternative" law? If the police are breaking the law, then there is no law, there is only power. Law is just words on paper without enforcement.

If the idea sounds farfetched, imagine if KKK members deciding to become police officers and how that changes the subjective experience of law by citizens compared to what law says on paper. Imagine they decide to become judges to. How would you expect that to pervert justice?

Re: FBI arrests judge accused of helping man evade immigration authorities

#782

Post by ivape »

lolinder wrote: post #778
ivape wrote: post #767

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The government has to prove intent here, which as some have noted is difficult, but if the facts as recounted in the news stories are all true it doesn't seem that it would be overwhelmingly difficult to prove that she intentionally took action (2) to thwart an arrest that she knew was imminent She is brave. I suspect we will look back on this one day if it goes that far. Even if you are staunch anti-immigration advo…

[flagged]

The headline did not appear inaccurate to me, but I'll confess I'm not as great of a reader as some of you. The article seems to indicate the headline is correct from my reading comprehension. I always scored well on reading comprehension tests so I don't know, did I get dumber? Someone else read the article and settle it between me and the GP so we can get a conclusive answer.

With that said, do you believe the Patriot Act was used only for terrorists?

Great little scene from The Departed:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAKPWaJPR0Y

Gangs and Terrorists are bad, but I believe we as a country went through this once already and you cannot create these precedents because they stick around. They're literally reusing Guantanamo Bay.

Re: FBI arrests judge accused of helping man evade immigration authorities

#783

Post by maxlybbert »

exe34 wrote: post #760
maxlybbert wrote: post #716

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Immigration law is wildly different from what people expect. But it is the law and it has been held up in countless court cases. This weirdness is not new. I think most of the weirdness comes from the fact that entering the country illegally, or remaining in the country illegally can be crimes, but they can also be civil offenses. “Civil” means no jail time, but people still get deported without going to criminal cou…

apparently immigration law infringement only goes to court if you're trying to stop them now - if they want to send you to a concentration camp, there's no right to due process.

The Alien Enemy Act is actually an incredibly old law (i.e., it’s not a new development). What is new is attempting to use it based on a declaration that there’s been a non-military invasion ( https://www.congress.gov/crs-product/LSB11269 ). I think it’s pretty clear that the Supreme Court is going to eventually strike that down, but the courts can only act in response to the cases they get, and only answer specific legal questions at different phases of those cases.

But about a month ago, the Court did rule people who the government wanted to send to El Salvador have a due process right to challenge that decision in regular federal court as a habeas corpus proceeding ( https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/24pdf/24a931_2c83.pdf ). They later issued an order that the people covered by the original ruling cannot be deported based on the Alien Enemy Act until further notice ( https://www.supremecourt.gov/orders/courtorders/041925zr_c18... ).

Re: FBI arrests judge accused of helping man evade immigration authorities

#784

Post by ImPostingOnHN »

Gabriel54 wrote: post #479
mjburgess wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. It isnt clear ICE agents have any legal authority to demand a judge tell them anything. 2. It is highly likely this is an official act, since it would be taken on behalf of court, so the immigrant can give, eg. testimony in a case. A "private act" here would be the judge lying in order to prevent their deportation because they as a private person wanted to do so. It seems highly unlikely that this is the case.

Did you read the warrant? They did not demand the judge tell them anything. They knew he was there and were waiting outside the courtroom to arrest him. The judge confronted them and was visibly upset. She directed the agents elsewhere and then immediately told Ruiz and his counsel to exit via a private hallway. The attorney prosecuting the case against Ruiz and his (alleged) victims were present in the court and con…

"elsewhere" here means "to the correct location they should have gone in the first place, to give notice of, and gain approval for, their actions"

it's a pretty important detail

Re: FBI arrests judge accused of helping man evade immigration authorities

#786

Post by lostmsu »

jmull wrote: post #701
lostmsu wrote: post #581

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of the options you mentioned the law only prescribes taking away driver licenses AFAIK. And you could, see no problem with that.

The point is, people are breaking the law all the time, that law is rarely enforced, yet no one seems to be calling for a widespread crackdown on speeding. The previous poster calls on us to be concerned about crimes and criminals leading to more crimes, but we already live in a country where very large numbers of “criminals” are driving around all over the place, yet it doesn’t seem to be a problem. You might ask yo…

> You might ask yourself why it’s supposed to be a big problem for one kind of law but not for another.

It is not a hard question. Speeding has already been determined to be of lesser harm and therefore the law calls for lesser punishment for violations.

Re: FBI arrests judge accused of helping man evade immigration authorities

#787

Post by SpicyLemonZest »

mullingitover wrote: post #451
mjburgess wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. It isnt clear ICE agents have any legal authority to demand a judge tell them anything. 2. It is highly likely this is an official act, since it would be taken on behalf of court, so the immigrant can give, eg. testimony in a case. A "private act" here would be the judge lying in order to prevent their deportation because they as a private person wanted to do so. It seems highly unlikely that this is the case.

I'd wager dollars to donuts this is a "You'll beat the rap but you won't beat the ride" intimidation tactic: the FBI knows it doesn't have a case, but they don't need to have a case to handcuff the judge and throw them in jail for a few days. That intimidation and use of force against the judicial branch is the end in itself.

You'll be happy to know, then, that the judge was released on her own recognizance.

Re: FBI arrests judge accused of helping man evade immigration authorities

#788

Post by scarface_74 »

Jensson wrote: post #761
ajross wrote: post #755

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> obstructed an arrest by changing standard procedure Which sounds awfully novel to me. You really want to tear down the structure of democracy over this kind of nitpicking on "procedure"? I remain horrified that people I really thought were normal Americans are willing to burn it all down just so they don't have to hear Spanish spoken in their doctor's office.

> I remain horrified that people I really thought were normal Americans are willing to burn it all down just so they don't have to hear Spanish spoken in their doctor's office. Calling people who are against illegal immigration "racist" just makes it worse. A majority of people are fine with legal migration, a supermajority of people think illegal immigrants should get deported. So no, the issue most see isn't that t…

As far as the Republican Party, statistics don’t back up the idea they are okay with legal immigration.

https://globalaffairs.org/research/public-opinion-survey/rep...

In Florida, Desantis is so against legal migration he is trying to relax child labor laws.

Even now there is a share of Republicans especially in southern states who are still against interracial marriages.

https://www.thenation.com/article/politics/interracial-marri...

Re: FBI arrests judge accused of helping man evade immigration authorities

#789

Post by 9283409232 »

Jensson wrote: post #761
ajross wrote: post #755

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> obstructed an arrest by changing standard procedure Which sounds awfully novel to me. You really want to tear down the structure of democracy over this kind of nitpicking on "procedure"? I remain horrified that people I really thought were normal Americans are willing to burn it all down just so they don't have to hear Spanish spoken in their doctor's office.

> I remain horrified that people I really thought were normal Americans are willing to burn it all down just so they don't have to hear Spanish spoken in their doctor's office. Calling people who are against illegal immigration "racist" just makes it worse. A majority of people are fine with legal migration, a supermajority of people think illegal immigrants should get deported. So no, the issue most see isn't that t…

This is a complicated issue because Republicans spent decades sabotaging the immigration system. If you're an immigrant trying to cross the border legally, you could spend years waiting for your hearing. Part of the reason illegal immigration is so high is because they make legal immigration near impossible.

Re: FBI arrests judge accused of helping man evade immigration authorities

#790

Post by jfengel »

Jensson wrote: post #761
ajross wrote: post #755

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> obstructed an arrest by changing standard procedure Which sounds awfully novel to me. You really want to tear down the structure of democracy over this kind of nitpicking on "procedure"? I remain horrified that people I really thought were normal Americans are willing to burn it all down just so they don't have to hear Spanish spoken in their doctor's office.

> I remain horrified that people I really thought were normal Americans are willing to burn it all down just so they don't have to hear Spanish spoken in their doctor's office. Calling people who are against illegal immigration "racist" just makes it worse. A majority of people are fine with legal migration, a supermajority of people think illegal immigrants should get deported. So no, the issue most see isn't that t…

Or we could just let more people be here legally. All we'd have to do is raise the quota.

Do that, and I'd have zero problems rounding up all of the remaining illegal immigrants and driving 'em into the ocean, if that's what you want. Instead, I'm suspicious that "the only issue is that they're here illegally" is just deflection.

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