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U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

washingtonpost.com

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Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#781

Post by zfg »

cbeach wrote: post #742
zfg wrote: post #679

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and spiteful, authoritarian politicians taking power. Or spiteful, authoritarian non-politicians taking power, spreading misinformation, and censoring free speech: https://www.techdirt.com/2025/02/03/musk-shows-us-what-actua...

Musk is a libertarian not an authoritarian. His job is to reduce the size and power of government. Authoritarians don’t do that. Libertarians do that. Two opposite ends of the spectrum. “Misinformation” is a very subjective word, so I’m afraid you and I will have to agree to disagree that Musk is spreading misinformation. Don’t believe everything you read about Musk in the mainstream media. Don’t forget that the medi…

> Musk is a libertarian not an authoritarian.

What, your claim is that libertarians suppress speech? Explain why Musk is censoring speech on Twitter.

Musk is authoritarian by nature. He always has been.

> “Misinformation” is a very subjective word

It isn't. It's lies, falsehoods, and untruths. Here are some of the lies Musk has spread:

- Lies about Paul Pelosi: https://edition.cnn.com/2022/10/30/business/musk-tweet-pelos...

- Lies about the recent LA fires: https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2025/01/10/elon-mu...

- Lies about USAID: https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20250202-musk-brands-u...

- Lies about how good he is at video games: https://english.elpais.com/technology/2025-01-24/elon-musk-a...

And so on and so on. He never stops lying. He can't help himself. There's something wrong with him.

> Don’t forget that the media have a vested interest in denigrating Musk, because he’s their most significant competitor, and while X exists, and we’re able to hear directly from influential people, the legacy media is powerless to control the narrative.

This kind of conspiratorial thinking won't get you anywhere.

Carl Sagan worried this would happen to you (https://www.openculture.com/2025/02/carl-sagan-predicts-the-...). Sagan said, "I have a foreboding of an America in my children’s or grandchildren’s time — when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers are in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what’s true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness"

And, sure enough, it has.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#782

Post by bayindirh »

TechnicalVault wrote: post #347
matthewdgreen wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're assuming that turning off ADP in the U.K. is sufficient to appease the British Government. The Investigatory Powers Act can also be interpreted to give the U.K. the right to ask for encrypted data from users outside of the U.K. (see Apple making this exact point in a filing here [1].) Turning off ADP in the U.K. doesn't end the controversy if that's what's at stake. [1] https://bsky.app/profile/matthewdgreen.b…

It creates a nasty precedent doesn't it? If Apple can provide the UK government with foreign data, what's to stop Russia or China making them provide data on UK minister's phones, or more likely dissidents in exile? I can't see on what basis the government thinks they're going to get to be exceptional here?

The thing is, most people think that governments wants new tools for surveillance. The fact is, they had this power for a very long time (see Crypto A.G. and history of NSA and others), and practical and verifiable E2EE took these capabilities away.

Now they want their toys back. This is why the push is so hard and coming from everywhere at once.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#783

Post by pentel-0_5 »

mtillman wrote: post #568
Lio wrote: post #273

I don't think the UK government would try to put Apple out of business if they don't comply it's more likely that they would just get heavily fined until they do so. The most likely outcome, I would guess, is that Apple just stop offering Advanced Data Protection as a service in the UK rather than create some kind of backdoor. It's a weak proposition from the government because anyone with something to hide will just…

A backdoor for one is an opportunity for many. Given the UK is completely incapable of outspending most of the world on compute, this effectively hands their enemies that data they’re looking for.

Yep. It's the creation of an artificial Hobson's choice: "do this, or I'm breaking up with you."

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#784

Post by aqueueaqueue »

scarface_74 wrote: post #281
snapcaster wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my mind, the only way to beat these efforts for good is to win hearts and minds of the larger public. Currently because only weirdos like us care about this stuff, we have to constantly be on top of these things and writing letters making posts etc. Overall i agree with you, it is really disheartening. That being said, i've made progress with my family on valuing privacy and the dangers of surveillance. I think pe…

Thought experiment: let’s say that Trump said that he thinks Apple is helping hide illegal immigrants because they are communicating with each other over channels that ICE can’t decrypt, how much pressure do you think he could put on legislatures to pass a law here? Now let’s say that some Republican Senators and Representatives were ethically opposed to but then threatened to be primaried and President Musk said he…

> legislatures

He will just do an executive order. He is an authoritarian, basically a king. "But but but it's illegal". The system can't keep up with speed he is dismantling it.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#785

Post by aqueueaqueue »

andyjohnson0 wrote: post #178
Havoc wrote: post #113

UK tech laws seem to consistently be the worst of both worlds. Not rights centric like the EU and not business supportive like the US. Just old people making bad laws about stuff they don't understand - or are straight up citizen hostile, sometimes hard to tell which it is.

Successive UK governments consistently fail to understand the UK's place in the modern world. Insisting on access to encrypted data in all jurisdictions globally is just another example of them thinking small and acting big. Its the digital equivalent of sending a gunboat to put-down the troublesome "natives". Meanwhile its 2025, not 1925. (disclosure: brit)

It would be like demanding a lock up in NYC open a locker in your name and seize all contents.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#786

Post by tatersolid »

caycep wrote: post #592
Lio wrote: post #273

I don't think the UK government would try to put Apple out of business if they don't comply it's more likely that they would just get heavily fined until they do so. The most likely outcome, I would guess, is that Apple just stop offering Advanced Data Protection as a service in the UK rather than create some kind of backdoor. It's a weak proposition from the government because anyone with something to hide will just…

I feel like the UK always tries to do this w/ encryption. I don't know if it's a cultural sway GCHQ has on legislators and such but it happens w/ every generation of cryptography. Weren't they the one that neutered GSM encryption such that it was essentially ineffective from the get go?

> Weren't they the one that neutered GSM encryption such that it was essentially ineffective from the get go?

The A5 cipher used in GSM came from France, but supposedly the Brits were also happy to have it be weak.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#788

Post by aqueueaqueue »

alkonaut wrote: post #304
Funes- wrote: post #216

Further proof against the idea that we live in "democracies", if anyone still believes that. We're at the hands of petty tyrants. Modern societies are surveillance hellholes, and it seems to only get worse and worse. So much for "progress".

I think this is unnecessarily defeatist. The UK is still a well functioning democracy. Using scare quotes around proper democracy just blurs the line to authoritarians and dictators. We elect our politicians. We demand they stop serious crime and terrorism. When they have bad ideas about how to do that, we let them know that it's a bad idea. Or we don't elect them again. This works.

"This works" in a parallel universe.

People vote like their dad or what the paper (Murdoch) tells them. If you are lucky to have a thinking voter they only get to choose 1 or 2 issues. Maybe they want lower income tax more than something something privacy.

People won't vote against their interests? "Latinos for Trump" etc. Says otherwise. Brexit people getting kicked out of Spain etc.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#789

Post by aqueueaqueue »

_trampeltier wrote: post #495
Funes- wrote: post #216

Further proof against the idea that we live in "democracies", if anyone still believes that. We're at the hands of petty tyrants. Modern societies are surveillance hellholes, and it seems to only get worse and worse. So much for "progress".

Thats nothing yet, just wait until we have no reals cash, just electronic money. This will be fun NOT

No cash... now that will cause a riot. Why? Tax evaders won't like it.
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