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OpenAI didn’t copy Scarlett Johansson’s voice for ChatGPT, records show

washingtonpost.com

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Re: OpenAI didn’t copy Scarlett Johansson’s voice for ChatGPT, records show

#781

Post by kevingadd »

beeboobaa3 wrote: post #778
kstrauser wrote: post #773

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please don't take this as me defending OpenAI's clearly sketchy process. I'm writing this to help myself think through it. If it weren't for their attempt to link the voice to SJ (i.e. with the "her" tweet), would that be OK? - It's fine to hire a voice actor. - It's fine to train a system to sound like that voice actor. - It's fine to hire a voice actor who sounds like someone else. - It's probably fine to go out of…

> It's probably not fine to hire a voice actor and tell them to imitate someone else. Pretty sure this is fine, otherwise cartoons like the simpsons or south park would've gotten in trouble years ago.

There's a distinction between parody and impersonation, yes.

Re: OpenAI didn’t copy Scarlett Johansson’s voice for ChatGPT, records show

#782

Post by summerlight »

kstrauser wrote: post #773
summerlight wrote: post #729

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My guess: Sam wanted to imitate the voice from Her and became aware of Midler v. Ford cases so reached out to SJ. He probably didn't expect her decline. Anyway, this prior case tells that you cannot mimic other's voice without their permission and the overall timeline indicates OpenAI's "intention" of imitation. It does not matter if they used SJ's voice in the training set or not. Their intention matters.

Please don't take this as me defending OpenAI's clearly sketchy process. I'm writing this to help myself think through it. If it weren't for their attempt to link the voice to SJ (i.e. with the "her" tweet), would that be OK? - It's fine to hire a voice actor. - It's fine to train a system to sound like that voice actor. - It's fine to hire a voice actor who sounds like someone else. - It's probably fine to go out of…

There's no clear line for this. To get the definite conclusion, you will need to bring this to the court with lots of investigation. I know this kind of ambiguity is frustrating, but the context and intention matter a lot here and unfortunately we don't have a better way than a legal battle to figure it out.

Thanks to Sam, this OpenAI case is clearer than others since he made a number of clear evidence against him.

Re: OpenAI didn’t copy Scarlett Johansson’s voice for ChatGPT, records show

#783

Post by krisoft »

theultdev wrote: post #457
krisoft wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That’s effectively what’s happening here, and it isn’t illegal. It is more complicated than that. Check out Midler v. Ford Motor Co, or Waits V. Frito Lay.

Ford hired impersonators, she's not an impersonator, that's her real voice. She's allowed to be a voice actor using her real voice. Your can point to the "Her" tweet, but it's a pretty flimsy argument.

> Your can point to the "Her" tweet, but it's a pretty flimsy argument.

I'm not making arguments which are not already explicitly written in my post.

My argument is simple: jorvi commented that you can hire "a real-life voice actress" to "try to imitate Scarlett Johansson’s voice as best as she could", and that is not illegal.

I said that the legality of that is more complicated. What jorvi describes might or might not be illegal based on various factors. And I pointed them towards the two references to support my argument.

I explicitly didn't say in that comment anything about the OpenAI/ScarJo case. You are reacting as if you think that I have some opinion about it. You are wrong, and it would be better if you would not try to guess my state of mind. If I have some opinion about something you will know because I will explicitly state it.

Re: OpenAI didn’t copy Scarlett Johansson’s voice for ChatGPT, records show

#784

Post by Hansenq »

mzs wrote: post #771
tptacek wrote: post #653

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They did produce the actual voice artist!

I don't see that here: https://openai.com/index/how-the-voices-for-chatgpt-were-cho... Is my my google-fu failing me and I'm not looking in the right place?

If you read the WaPo article that's the topic of this thread, you'll see that the actual voice artist is quoted in the article.

Re: OpenAI didn’t copy Scarlett Johansson’s voice for ChatGPT, records show

#785

Post by sanderjd »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #732
goatlover wrote: post #722

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What facts disprove OpenAI making a voice that sounds like SJ such that the movie Her is referenced by Altman, and why is that actress upset?

> What facts disprove OpenAI making a voice that sounds like SJ The objective parts of this are disproved in several ways by the very article under which we're commenting . The subjective parts are... subjective, but arguably demonstrated as false in the very thread, through examples of SJ vs. Sky to listen side by side. > such that the movie Her is referenced by Altman You're creating a causal connection without a p…

You want to say that the dispute here is over ignoring objective facts, but it isn't. I haven't seen anybody here ignoring the facts laid out by this article.

The dispute is instead about statements just like your We don't know why Altman referenced "Her", which, on the one hand, you're right, the mind of another personally is technically unknowable, but on the other hand, no, that's total nonsense, we do indeed know exactly why he referenced the movie, because we're a social animal and we absolutely are frequently capable of reasoning out other people's motivations and intentions.

This is not a court of law, we don't have a responsibility to suspend disbelief unless and until we see a piece of paper that says "I did this thing for this reason", we are free to look at a pattern of behavior and draw obvious conclusions.

Indeed, if it were a court of law, that's still exactly what we'd be asked to do. Intent matters, and people usually don't spell it out in a memo, so people are asked to look at a pattern of behavior in context and use their judgement to determine what they think it demonstrates.

Re: OpenAI didn’t copy Scarlett Johansson’s voice for ChatGPT, records show

#786

Post by HarHarVeryFunny »

jackothy wrote: post #695
HarHarVeryFunny wrote: post #690

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, no-one is disputing that, and despite this Altman then contacts SJ again two days before release asking her to reconsider, then tweets "her" to remind the public what he was shooting for. The goal could have just been ChatGPT with a voice interface, but instead Altman himself is saying the the goal was specifically to copy "her".

He's not necessarily saying that was the goal from the start. All he is admitting with that tweet is that it is indeed (he finds it to be) reminiscent of "Her".

Well, from the start, Altman wanted SJ to do the voice. Perhaps he'd never seen or heard of the movie "her", and the association is just coincidental?

After "she" said no, then Altman auditions a bunch of voice talent and picks someone who sounds just like SJ. I guess that's just the kind of voice he likes.

So, Altman has forgotten about SJ, has 5 voice talents in the bag, and is good to go, right? But then, 2 days(!) before the release he calls SJ again, asking her to reconsider (getting nervous about what he's about to release, perhaps?).

But still, maybe we should give Altman the benefit of the doubt, and assume he wanted SJ so badly because he had a crush on her or something?

Then on release day, Altman tweets "her", and reveals a demo not of a sober AI assistant with a voice interface, but of a cringe-inducing AI girlfriend trying to be flirty and emotional. He could have picked any of the five voices for the demo, but you know ...

But as you say, he's not admitting anything. When he tweeted "her" maybe it was because he saw the movie for the first time the night before?

Re: OpenAI didn’t copy Scarlett Johansson’s voice for ChatGPT, records show

#787

Post by edgyquant »

tptacek wrote: post #650
qarl wrote: post #644

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right. And that's extremely hard to believe. A discovery search of the internal emails should give us a definitive answer.

To find this "extremely hard to believe", you have to argue that this story, which has multiple sources unaffiliated with OpenAI, contemporaneous documentary evidence, and is written by a reporter with every incentive in the world to roast OpenAI, is directly wrong about facts plainly reported in the story. I think you have to want this story to be wrong to think it's wrong. It's a tough beat! Everyone was super sure…

He literally posted “her” on Twitter the day before the press release. The willful ignorance here is astounding

Re: OpenAI didn’t copy Scarlett Johansson’s voice for ChatGPT, records show

#788

Post by sanderjd »

ein0p wrote: post #770
sanderjd wrote: post #737

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It has nothing to do with this. There are many successful people and businesses that I admire, and a number of notable examples of those I do not. The two your comment mentions are simply part of that latter group. I think for good reason. (But of course I would think that...)

I’m not talking about you specifically here. What you’re saying could be true for you, and not true for the community as a whole. With the benefit of experience, I can tell for certain there’s (on average) a strong undercurrent of jealousy against people perceived as overly ambitious, particularly if they are successful in their ambitions. This is not specific to this site, of course, or even to the tech community in…

You're right that it could be the case. But I disagree that it is likely to be, in this specific case, and the other specific case you cited.

I think many people distrust and dislike Altman and Musk in particular because of their own specific behavior.

Some people are hated because people are just jealous, but other people use that as an umbrella excuse to deflect blowback from their behavior that they entirely deserve. I believe this is one of those latter cases.

Re: OpenAI didn’t copy Scarlett Johansson’s voice for ChatGPT, records show

#789

Post by edgyquant »

z7 wrote: post #672
bmitc wrote: post #660

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't mean anything. They could have been and were likely developing the process and technology while having Johansson in mind the whole time. > never had the movie Her or SJ's name mentioned to her a single time How do you know that?

The article says: >The agent, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to assure the safety of her client, said the actress confirmed that neither Johansson nor the movie “Her” were ever mentioned by OpenAI.

It was mentioned by Sam himself on Twitter. So this is a bold face lie I can’t believe anyone is buying.

Re: OpenAI didn’t copy Scarlett Johansson’s voice for ChatGPT, records show

#790

Post by codemac »

beeboobaa3 wrote: post #778
kstrauser wrote: post #773

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please don't take this as me defending OpenAI's clearly sketchy process. I'm writing this to help myself think through it. If it weren't for their attempt to link the voice to SJ (i.e. with the "her" tweet), would that be OK? - It's fine to hire a voice actor. - It's fine to train a system to sound like that voice actor. - It's fine to hire a voice actor who sounds like someone else. - It's probably fine to go out of…

> It's probably not fine to hire a voice actor and tell them to imitate someone else. Pretty sure this is fine, otherwise cartoons like the simpsons or south park would've gotten in trouble years ago.

This is specifically covered in cases like Midler v. Ford, and legally it matters what the use is for. If it's for parody/etc it's completely different from attempting to impersonate and convince customers it is someone else.
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