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Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes

cnbc.com

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Re: Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes

#781

Post by Veserv »

ggreer wrote: post #779
Veserv wrote: post #639

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So they read some, but not all speed limit signs, and especially not the really important ones that inform you that you will be going dangerously fast if you do not read and follow them. That is criminally unacceptable.

Can you name any car manufacturer that has software to read those signs?

Waymo. Cruise. And I do not see how the presence or absence of features in other products has any bearing on the lacking safety characteristics of FSD.

Frankly, attempting to deflect by arguing that it is okay to release a defective safety critical product to unsuspecting consumers just because nobody else is willing to offer a similar product because they have some moral integrity is a stance that makes the executives at Ford presiding over the Pinto look like angels in comparison. All the Ford executives did was cover it up to avoid having to pay to fix it. At least they did not intentionally release a known defective and dangerous product just to recognize some revenue.

Re: Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes

#782

Post by mike_d »

dylan604 wrote: post #773
mike_d wrote: post #746

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Almost all car recalls are voluntary because once it becomes a mandatory recall the government can require them to provide a buyback option to the vehicle owner.

oh, that would be amazeballs to have Tesla reimburse the cost of the FSD purchase. i never drank the Tesla kool-aid, so it would be good karma to see them get dinged for the snake-oil they've sold as FSD

Oh no, it wouldn't be a FSD buyback, it would be a car buyback at damn near purchase price... which is why manufactures avoid it at all costs.

§ 30120(a)(1)(A)(iii) by refunding the purchase price, less a reasonable allowance for depreciation.

Re: Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes

#783

Post by ggreer »

Veserv wrote: post #781
ggreer wrote: post #779

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you name any car manufacturer that has software to read those signs?

Waymo. Cruise. And I do not see how the presence or absence of features in other products has any bearing on the lacking safety characteristics of FSD. Frankly, attempting to deflect by arguing that it is okay to release a defective safety critical product to unsuspecting consumers just because nobody else is willing to offer a similar product because they have some moral integrity is a stance that makes the executiv…

Neither of those companies have software that reads those signs and use them to choose cornering speeds. They both use high resolution 3D maps from previous lidar scans of the road.

Re: Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes

#784

Post by gxc33 »

Sparyjerry wrote: post #720
gxc33 wrote: post #650

Earlier quoted context omitted.

'full self driving' is an even more incorrect term, then, if you want to be pedantic. if the car mfg takes zero liability/accountability, then it is zero self-driving. you can, in fact, 'recall' software. this is semantically accurate description of what is happening.

It's a full self driving 'beta' though, it's literally in the name that it isn't final and doesn't have the bugs worked out. You also have to opt in to it.

Wait is your argument adjectives can only be applied to Tesla marketing terms, and not to other English words?

What do you think “FSD recall” or “software recall” means

Tesla released software that can kill people. It must do a FSD recall

This is not the same as Apple doing an OS update, not mandated by a regulatory body because it could kill someone

I was hit by a driver not paying attention. I had to get two surgeries, was not allowed to stand for 9 months, spent another year just rehabbing my nervous system and learning to walk. I still can’t jump or run

Tesla released software it’s marketing as “full self driving” that is not even Level 2 Alpha! Full Self Driving implies a level 5 system.

Tesla’s software has disclaimers like “may not behave as expected in sunlight”. Even its AutoPilot has these disclaimers.

It constantly claims FSD makes drivers safer. Yet it’s non transparent with its data, the data & comparisons it does release is completely misleading to the point of fraud, comparing apples to oranges. The cars it’s released on public roads to untrained drivers runs through intersections (it’s all over YouTube) and fails all kinds of basic driving tests. Tesla accepts ZERO responsibility if someone is killed while FSD is activated… that’s how little confidence it has in its own product

This is a product that can maim and kill humans, ruin people’s entire lives… and your response is incoherent mumbling about adjectives ?

Any person who is majorly confused by what a “software recall” is… or can’t figure out what this FSD recall means for them, shouldn’t be beta testing a 2-ton machine on public roads. They shouldn’t be driving period.

Re: Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes

#785

Post by orthecreedence »

Beaver117 wrote: post #700
orthecreedence wrote: post #444

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we're actually serious about this, we should get rid of roads altogether and replace them with rail tracks. That solves 95% of the automation problem anyway.

You're living in a fantasy. Name one country that has done that.

Name one person who invented airplanes before airplanes were invented.

Re: Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes

#786

Post by heavyset_go »

nerdix wrote: post #750
diebeforei485 wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Recall implies something being returned. This should be called a mandatory software patch, or something like that. The problem is Tesla owners repeatedly see "recall" to mean "software update", so this might lead to a lot of confusion if a physical recall is actually required in the future.

Samsung just recently had a recall on some recent model top loading washing machines due to fire hazard. The fix? A software update. https://www.cpsc.gov/Recalls/2023/Samsung-Recalls-Top-Load-W...

It's seems that it's only not a recall when Tesla does it, because Tesla invented software updates.

Re: Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes

#787

Post by heavyset_go »

redundantly wrote: post #441
tsgagnon wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? It involves a safety system! That needs to be tracked publicly and updated! Nothing more than an OTA - does not mean much when everything is fly by wire and a bug could mean your car does not stop accelerating or something. True, but by announcing things in this fashion it is making Tesla look bad. Regulations really need to be updated so that car makers can hide this type of problem from customers as easily as…

I don't think the other people that replied picked up on your sarcasm.

It's a great example of Poe's law at work. Tesla apologists are just that absurd when it comes to holding the company to a double standard about anything that could make them look bad.

Re: Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes

#788

Post by vardump »

rootusrootus wrote: post #689
vardump wrote: post #678

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Euro NCAP etc. seem to classify Teslas as (some of) the safest vehicles on roads. https://www.euroncap.com/en/results/tesla/model+y/46618 Same for NHTSA: https://www.nhtsa.gov/vehicle/2022/TESLA/MODEL%2525203/4%252...

Because they have a lower center of gravity and good crash structure. These are good things. But avoiding the accident in the first place significantly reduces the need to test that crashworthiness.

Tesla was the top one also in avoiding accidents. See Euro NCAP test.

Re: Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes

#789

Post by JPLeRouzic »

988747 wrote: post #406
JPLeRouzic wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Something a bit similar is clinical trial and it is accepted without problem. You make a black box test on several thousands (sometimes only hundreds) patients, and if patients who received the drug perform better the patients who received the placebo, then the drug is usually accepted for commercialization. Yet one isolated patient may be subject to several comorbidities, her environment could be weird, she could in…

First of all, clinical trials are typically longer and more thorough than you imagine, they span years. The fact that COVID vaccines were fast-tracked gives people wrong idea about it. Secondly, even after the product hits the market the company is still responsible for tracking any possible adverse effects. They have a hotline where a patient or doctor can report it, and every single employee or contractor (includin…

> clinical trials are typically longer and more thorough than you imagine, they span years

I don't know where you get that, most clinical trials last 26 weeks, even in phase III.

and about "more thorough than you imagine" no, most are subcontracted to CROs and the way clinical trials are conducted is messy.

Below is story from the POV of a PI.

But similarly many patients complain about the way they are treated in visits and the lack of interest of the nurse/doctor who receive them.

https://milkyeggs.com/biology/why-are-clinical-trials-so-exp...

Re: Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes

#790

Post by literalAardvark »

pbreit wrote: post #648
bigtex88 wrote: post #592

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're trolling, aren't you? No one can be this stupid, especially not someone who reads this blog.

How so? I consider multiple creations substantially more impressive than one.

Then you'll be very impressed by the number of creations Rockefeller had. Standard Oil itself was an empire, not a factory, in a time when it took weeks and an army to get even information sent out.

Carnegie was incredible as well.

I'm not saying Elon isn't impressive, he is. He's just not the MOST impressive.

One tiny space sailing company and a shoddy carriage company compare poorly to the empires of Standard Oil, Carnegie steel, Ford, and the side projects of these people (multiple high impact philanthropic enterprises). They're the literal hands that built America.

He's still young though, there's some hope for him.

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