Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Is that ship still stuck?

istheshipstillstuck.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

781–790 of 1001 posts

Re: Is that ship still stuck?

#781

Post by mattashii »

neogodless wrote: post #566
blhack wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are 20,000 containers on the ship. Assuming you needed to remove 1/4 of those containers to get it to rise far enough to get off of the sand, you need to move 5000 containers. Assume that it takes 5 minute to connect a bridle to a container, hook it to a helicopter, and move it...and then also assume that the helicopters can run 24/7 and never have to refuel, that they can hot swap in pilots, and that there is…

Just going off "count the candy in the jar" math from this image: https://static.vesselfinder.net/ship-photo/9811000-353136000... ? It appears to be roughly 7 x 20 x 25 containers, or 3500... (height x width x length.) EDIT: Freezing this video I got a better view of how it's stacked today. I'm sure this is imperfect, like I said trying to count candy in a jar. But I'm curious what the real number of containers is! H…

Your height number is off by a factor of 2; a significant factor of container storage on these large container ships is below the deck. It isn't uncommon for these large ships to have 9 to 12 containers stacked on top of eachother before the stack reaches above the deck and becomes visible from the side.

Re: Is that ship still stuck?

#782

Post by quickthrower2 »

mark_mart wrote: post #636
phenylene wrote: post #315

My non-techie wife just said to me, "We need to NFT this situation somehow." She's been down that rabbit hole ever since reading about the Beeple piece.

I hope she reads the article about Beeple fraud. Buyer and owner of that art are basically investors in the same nft comp, there is no transaction either. It's just a PR.

She needs to read this to come up with an equally genius marketing plan for her NFT.

An NFT is about marketing. The products value is how well the product is marketed and nothing else. It’s purified capitalism!

Re: Is that ship still stuck?

#783

Post by a9h74j »

nabla9 wrote: post #263
blhack wrote: post #39

I don't think people are giving enough credit to how stuck the ship is. Look at some of the photos of the front of it. Look at how far out of the water it is sitting. The ship might look like that if it were totally empty, but not when it is full of containers like this. Some people saying: just drag it off of the sand. Okay! And what happens when that causes you to rip a hole into the hull of the ship? Now it's real…

Lloyd's List estimated that every day Suez is closed costs US$9 billion ($400 million per hour). If it could be done technically and open up the canal, it would be cheaper for insurance companies to buy the ship, it's cargo, buy all nearby property and then blow the whole ship up.

Which is what fraction of what the Fed is lending. Problem solved.

Re: Is that ship still stuck?

#784

Post by souprock »

vanviegen wrote: post #771
rtkwe wrote: post #632

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For moving containers off the best bet would probably be heavy lift choppers, the ship is large enough you could have several working on it at once and then just drop them off nearby to be loaded onto barges or something. A huge undertaking but it any weight taken off the Evergreen is less digging they have to do and the time is so expensive. Also it's less middle of nowhere there's a pretty large airbase nearby it l…

It seems that containers may be too heavy. The most powerful chopper (the M-26) lifts up to 20,000kg (with most heavy-lift choppers probably lifting about half that), while some containers may wel exceed 30,000kg.

Wikipedia says: As of 2016, the Mi-26 still holds the Fédération Aéronautique Internationale world record for the greatest mass lifted by a helicopter to 2,000 metres (6,562 ft) – 56,768.8 kilograms (125,000 lb) on a flight in 1982.

That is 56.8 to 62.5 tons, depending on the type of ton. Lift two containers at once.

Making things even easier, the shipping company knows the position and weight of every container. The containers have been carefully placed, keeping the weight low and spread evenly. The containers on top are the low-weight ones.

Re: Is that ship still stuck?

#786

Post by brian_cloutier »

Mockapapella wrote: post #727
movedx wrote: post #692

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Go, go gadget globalisation! Seriously though that's pretty amazing. Fun fact: corporations used to exist for a limit period of time, to solve a particular problem, and were then dissolved. With the introduction of indefinite corporations, we end up with cool setups like those /u/throwawaybutwhy has highlighted.

When and where did they exist for a limited period of time? It never even occurred to me that this was an option

The first European joint-stock corporations were for single voyages. Everyone would band together and fund a ship to go somewhere, then split the earnings and dissolve the corporation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint-stock_company#Early_join...

Re: Is that ship still stuck?

#787

Post by toyota86 »

throwawaybutwhy wrote: post #689

Fun facts: 1. The owner is Japanese 2. The operator is Taiwanese 3. The flag is Panamanian 4. The cargo is Chinese 5. The insurer is British 6. The crew is Indian 7. The canal is Egyptian and was built with forced labor by the French 8. The dredgers/salvage op managers are Dutch

> The flag is Panamanian

That's an interesting way to say tax evasion.

Re: Is that ship still stuck?

#788

Post by a9h74j »

sellyme wrote: post #377
nabla9 wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lloyd's List estimated that every day Suez is closed costs US$9 billion ($400 million per hour). If it could be done technically and open up the canal, it would be cheaper for insurance companies to buy the ship, it's cargo, buy all nearby property and then blow the whole ship up.

I was wondering how far I'd have to scroll down this thread to get to the "does Egypt have any nukes?" solution.

I haven't spotted "now you have two problems" anywhere yet.

Re: Is that ship still stuck?

#789

Post by perlgeek »

rtkwe wrote: post #632
lhorie wrote: post #616

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a really good example of how terrible people are at judging scale. Some numbers getting thrown around downthread say there's something to the tune of 10,000 40ft containers. To give a bit of a sense of perspective, that's like trying to clear out some 200 football fields worth of semi-trucks, except they are stacked, packed full of stuff, and have no gas or wheels. And all of them are perched atop a ship that…

For moving containers off the best bet would probably be heavy lift choppers, the ship is large enough you could have several working on it at once and then just drop them off nearby to be loaded onto barges or something. A huge undertaking but it any weight taken off the Evergreen is less digging they have to do and the time is so expensive. Also it's less middle of nowhere there's a pretty large airbase nearby it l…

Ha, in the late 90s/early 00s, there was some buzz in Germany about building a huge freight airship: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CargoLifter

They went bankrupt, which is kinda sad. It had a designed lift capacity of 160t, so could theoretically lift several containers at once, given the right harness.

(Of course I have no idea if it would be have been practical to use it to unload the containers, but the idea is certainly intriguing).

Re: Is that ship still stuck?

#790

Post by brian_cloutier »

Sebb767 wrote: post #757
mark_mart wrote: post #619

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Should we also count the effort needed to put these containers back to vessel? Same for fuel.

No. The blockage is the problem; anything on that ship is basically irrelevant from an economical perspective. Especially when we're talking about weeks of downtime.

Who internalizes those costs though?

Only the owner of the ship is allowed to harm it and the owner would like the cargo to remain undamaged. I suppose the many other entities which would like to use the canal could pay the owner enough to make damaging the ship and cargo economical?

Egypt might be able to unilaterally decide to destroy the ship but I don't know how much benefit Egypt gets from keeping the canal open, they might not have a strong incentive either way.

I agree with you that collectively we should be able to say the safety of the ship is unimportant compared to all the other cargo which needs to get through that canal. However, 2020 should have made it clear that we're not good at solving that kind of coordination problem.

Post reply on HN