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Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

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Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#781

Post by [deleted] »

cmurf wrote: post #620
nicbou wrote: post #11

Someone brought an interesting perspective in another thread and I can't shake it off. The other side keeps deplatforming them. Their legal cases are rejected. The mainstream media refuses to take them seriously. We're not even listening to them, because it's science and they're *ists if they disagree. We're not debating anymore. We just assume we're right. We are slowly squeezing a significant segment of the populat…

Parler, Apple, Google, Twitter are not public venues. In no possible way are they for public debate. If you go on Parler and call Donald Trump a malignant narcissist, you will get banned. If you say too many political things on Hacker News, you get warned and banned. None of these places are public venues. They are not the thing you seem to think they are. Maybe they aren't even what they have purported to be up unti…

[deleted]

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#782

Post by wilsynet »

lr4444lr wrote: post #670
jmknoll wrote: post #542

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it really that implausible that half the population isn't willing to think critically about a nuanced problem, or to accept evidence that contradicts their desired narrative? Statistics aren't always reliable, but somewhere around 1/3 of American adults believe that climate change is a hoax, and evolution is a lie.

Fine, but do their hair-brained ideas and failure to think critically merit shutting them out of public discourse?

They aren’t shut out. It’s not a left vs right thing. Whether your ideas are hairbrained or not, left wing or right wing — if you incite violence they should take away your account.

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#783

Post by rangoon626 »

all_factz wrote: post #579
LetsPlayNice wrote: post #516

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I appreciate your honesty and I will attempt to explain, briefly, so you might understand better. 1. Most people on the right are against abortion for the reason that it is against their particular religion, which declares it as murder and murder is wrong. But, the others don't care at all about a woman's right to choose, they just don't want their tax dollars paying for that choice instead of other things they want.…

But your own post makes clear the problem with your logic. This isn’t about convincing people. It’s about the fact that people’s political views are guided by gut, instinct and the bubbles they’re in instead of by critical thinking. These people believe abortion is killing an innocent baby. They don’t want their tax dollars spent on thing X. They believe the election was rigged — evidence doesn’t come into it. How do…

Just wanna add that the left seems to believe what institutions and the legacy media tell them, at face value.

Many on the right use critical thinking, however they seem to believe that numbers and “science” can be spun into any narrative the gatekeepers want (whoever they may be).

Most of the schism really seems to be based on trust. Left trusts by default, the right does not. The left trusts that the government knows best, the right does not. The right believes in personal responsibility for running your life (not trusting it to any other party), the left does not, requiring collectivism and social programs.

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#784

Post by zaroth »

kemitchell wrote: post #756
zaroth wrote: post #648

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If they want a platform for it they can build it themselves... Right, right. That’s working out well for Parlor.

The First Amendment doesn't guarantee a successful platform. Not if you use someone else's. Not if you build your own. Nor does the First Amendment guarantee that exercising your freedom of speech will work out well for you. Circulation, reaction, lack of an overbearing editor---none of these are entitlements under our laws.

Who said anything about the First Amendment?

To be a bit glib, we’re not talking about illegal government censorship, we’re talking about evil corporate censorship.

It’s 100% perfectly legal for Apple to choose which apps it will sell on its store. Hey, sometimes I even like the decisions they make!

But no longer can anyone legitimately respond to “XYZ got kicked off this platform” with “then XYZ should build their own platform” because obviously we’ve seen many times over now that doesn’t actually work.

They just come after the new platform too.

So we are left with either admitting we’re ok with corporations censoring political speech, even though it’s illegal for governments to do that, or trying to figure out what the limits should be of corporate censorship of political speech that we can live with.

For what it’s worth, I think the key metric here to consider is the level of competition in the specific market where the censorship is occurring.

The problem is most of these markets are more like duopolies if not monopolies, and the limits on corporate censorship of political speech probably should be higher the closer you get to a monopoly.

Some censorship is of course essential. But back to the point, when we see censorship that is objectionable to a reasonable number of people... “just build your own” isn’t a valid response.

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#785

Post by StanislavPetrov »

kombucha111 wrote: post #723
StanislavPetrov wrote: post #687

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I get what you're saying but the other side of the coin is maybe the society at large is rejecting them. "Society at large" isn't doing any of this - a few billionaires in silicon valley are - that's the issue. Who is this, "them" you speak of? The false, binary left/right paradigm is a contrived illusion used to fool and manipulate simple people. What speech isn't okay? What's the standard used to silence people fr…

Who is being silenced from what public Square? Facebook and Twitter are not the public square. If you'd prefer that they be considered as such then you better get cracking on some legislation/regulation or nationalize these privately held for-profit companies.

Twitter, Google, Facebook and Apple are monopolies that are most certainly the public square. "Market Allocation Schemes" where companies collude to fix prices and rig markets are explicitly illegal, and I don't see why the collusion of monopolies to "fix" speech is any different.

If we lived in a country with a functional government these monopolies would have been broken up long ago and the internet would be regulated as the public utility that it is.

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#786

Post by macintux »

toast0 wrote: post #777
macintux wrote: post #407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, it’s increasingly obvious that the fable was wrong. People are easily led (and not just those who cling to Trump).

It's been a while since I read it, but don't quite a lot of people go along with it? It takes a child to point it out, because everyone else is bought in to assuming the king couldn't be so foolish, so they must be mistaken.

Sorry, what I meant was this: after the child pointed it out, everyone acknowledged the truth.

What these disastrous last 5 years have proven is that people will refuse to acknowledge the obvious truth as long as there's a plausible lie they prefer.

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#787

Post by rootusrootus »

macinjosh wrote: post #671
rootusrootus wrote: post #641

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll be honest -- I haven't really seen any cases where someone was deplatformed for a legitimate political view. By that I mean a viewpoint that is at least tolerant, if nothing else. If the argument against deplatforming is that people should be allowed to heap hatred on gay people or other minorities, then it's not a particularly strong argument. Maybe this is just inherent to a conservative viewpoint, I don't kno…

You get to decide what a ‘legitimate political view’ is? That’s rich. This is so tone deaf.

I see you got no further than 'legitimate political view' and then immediately decided to reply. Read the whole comment before replying, please. And go ahead, disagree with my definition -- I was pretty clear. Convince me that intolerance should in fact be tolerated; that it will not destroy a tolerant society.

Why is it that conservatives consider intolerance to be their right above everyone else?

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#788

Post by 8note »

nicbou wrote: post #11

Someone brought an interesting perspective in another thread and I can't shake it off. The other side keeps deplatforming them. Their legal cases are rejected. The mainstream media refuses to take them seriously. We're not even listening to them, because it's science and they're *ists if they disagree. We're not debating anymore. We just assume we're right. We are slowly squeezing a significant segment of the populat…

It's not like they aren't angry when they have a platform. The kkk folks were running people over in celebration of Trump's win.

Appeasement is a failing strategy when it comes to fascists

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#789

Post by hindsightbias »

jgwil2 wrote: post #679
LetsPlayNice wrote: post #516

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I appreciate your honesty and I will attempt to explain, briefly, so you might understand better. 1. Most people on the right are against abortion for the reason that it is against their particular religion, which declares it as murder and murder is wrong. But, the others don't care at all about a woman's right to choose, they just don't want their tax dollars paying for that choice instead of other things they want.…

And yet if we look at it objectively, the right is clearly overrepresnted in our political system. Republicans lost the popular vote in five of the last six presidential elections. In the next presidential election there will be many eligible voters who weren't even born last time they won. The Senate gives a seven point advantage to Republicans. So please, explain to me where you get this idea that the right is "tre…

7 of the last 8 elections. And yet they are the ones “out of touch”

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#790

Post by diskmuncher »

jmknoll wrote: post #542
nicbou wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, that is what reddit, twitter and Hacker News reinforce constantly. It's either because it's true, or because the other side has been repeatedly discouraged from adding their two cents in those communities. I've been seeing the world through this lens for so long that I can't tell. I find it somewhat implausible that half the population is dumb, racist and all those other labels. It seems much more likely that I…

Is it really that implausible that half the population isn't willing to think critically about a nuanced problem, or to accept evidence that contradicts their desired narrative? Statistics aren't always reliable, but somewhere around 1/3 of American adults believe that climate change is a hoax, and evolution is a lie.

Let's assume that all the issues are binary (i.e. you are either for or against a proposition). But there are a large number of them. Humans are lazy. We try to use few categories to organize people we come into contact with (e.g. left or right, colored or white).

What will happen next? We feel that "the other side" seems to be all around, almost half the population. Example: many who oppose abortion probably also believe Black Lives Matter.

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