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France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

reuters.com

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Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#781

Post by lostjohnny »

gadders wrote: post #604
blackbrokkoli wrote: post #225

I'm of course not familiar with the specific mindsets and the history of this decision, but I want to share a bit of cultural perspective from Germany that is so far not really considered in this comment section: Germany is very, very keen on preventing powerful entities from acting outside of regulation and similarly, if not more, on preventing a single entity to get in control of everything. This is largely due to…

>> on preventing a single entity to get in control of everything You mean like the EU?

EU is not a private company, is made of 350 millions of EU citizens and we like it like that.

More than having to worry about my kids getting shot at school by some other angry kid.

Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#782

Post by lostjohnny »

Moru wrote: post #350
Hermel wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s a very typical German mindset. You implicitly assume that nothing good can come out of Libra so it should be banned from the beginning. The pragmatic approach is to wait and see what happens. Most likely, it won’t be as successful as you assume it will be. Also, there are plenty of other forms of private money out there that you don’t seem to have a problem with (e.g. credit cards), as well as foreign currenci…

Germans seem not to like credit cards either. Most people pay with cash at the store.

We do in Italy too.

Protesters in Honk Kong did that too, to not be identified and tracked.

Protesters is US did that too to buy subway tickets, again, to avoid being tracked.

It's ok to pay in cash.

It's not that we go around with leather suitcases full of cash to buy tons of cocaine...

Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#784

Post by tripzilch »

lacker wrote: post #614
zaphirplane wrote: post #596

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel there is a conflation here. Facebook is free to apply for a banking license in countries they want to operate as a bank in. Facebook shouldn’t be able to circumvent banking over site and regulations by coming in as a technology company with fancy words. The conflation here is Facebook isn’t being blocked form becoming a licensed bank in Germany - correct me if I’m wrong

But they don’t want to become a bank. They want to build a cryptocurrency. There are already hundreds of cryptocurrencies that operate in France and Germany, and the developers do not have to have banking licenses.

Hundreds of cryptocurrencies that aren't being operated by the most powerful social network corporation in the world.

it's such a small distinction I can see how you choose to overlook it ...

Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#785

Post by tripzilch »

nugget wrote: post #575
dpau wrote: post #419

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Last week I wanted to purchase a used item but discovered that, without warning or notification, Marketplace was deactivated from my Facebook account. My Facebook account is quite active, with posts, discussion in multiple groups, and hundreds of friends. I still have no clue as to what rule I triggered and no recourse to reactivate it. Now imagine that's my digital Libra bank account? No thanks.

Isn't the answer better consumer protections, though? Rather than a ban on new technology that threatens the status quo. If Facebook wants to be a bank, they should be subject to the banking regulators and there could be (should be) strong consumer protections preventing the type of corporate behavior you describe.

> there could be (should be) strong consumer protections preventing the type of corporate behavior you describe

there's not a snowflake's chance in hell that a megacorporation like Facebook is going to provide strong customer protections on a long-term basis, compared to what a EU country can provide its citizens.

how can you even begin to trust something that big, that has been around for such a short time (~2 decades?).

remember 15 years ago when people thought Google was cool and "one of us / the good guys" and way more trustworthy than most things on the Internet?

it's a long time on the Internet, but it's a blip in history when it comes to trust in state regulations and consumer protection.

Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#786

Post by tripzilch »

adolph wrote: post #588
nugget wrote: post #575

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't the answer better consumer protections, though? Rather than a ban on new technology that threatens the status quo. If Facebook wants to be a bank, they should be subject to the banking regulators and there could be (should be) strong consumer protections preventing the type of corporate behavior you describe.

Doesn’t that just shift the controls on corporate behavior and consolidate the controls into a political process? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Choke_Point

which is where you want it, because FB doesn't exactly have a good track record when it comes to customer protection, compared to most EU countries. in fact their track record is both worse and laughably shorter.

Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#787

Post by tripzilch »

smsm42 wrote: post #550
WhoBeI wrote: post #522

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was hoping this would happen. It will probably become a EU thing now. The idea of a privately controlled currency needs to die quickly. Never been a fan of crypto currency in general but Bitcoin, and the like, are accepted because they are not centralized. Your Bitcoin won't change in value or disappear because your country and another get in a fight.

There are lots of privately controlled currencies. Miles, points, certificates, game gold, etc. - they are all private currencies. Most of them aren't legal tender, but neither are cryptocurrencies. The only difference between facebook-coin and miles is that Facebook promises to encourage dealing in their coin and airline would frown on that. Not much difference otherwise. You have some tokens that you can exchange f…

> The only difference between facebook-coin and miles is that Facebook promises to encourage dealing in their coin and airline would frown on that. Not much difference otherwise.

I mean there is the tiny difference that one of these is the biggest social network megacorporation on the planet with the power and will to heavily influence a user base larger than France and Germany combined, but otherwise, yeah.

Nobody wants Facebook to have that power, even if they hadn't screwed over their users multiple times and seem to be devoid of scruples, they haven't even existed long enough to demonstrate deserving that kind of trust.

Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#788

Post by tripzilch »

devcpp wrote: post #527
kortilla wrote: post #387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It won’t. Germany already doesn’t have control of the monetary policy for the currency it uses (the Euro). Monetary policy != taxation.

EU has many checks and balances, is governed by Germany and other like-minded countries, and has given lots of guarantees as well as an option to leave. If Facebook decides to discuss on that level, maybe an actual agreement could come out of that.

Facebook can come and expect to discuss on the level of trust that a country gets when it has existed for less than 2 decades and has been treating its citizens/users like an authoritarian dictatorship surveillance state. There are a number of other parallels, and none of them put FB in a good light.

It's not going to be a very amicable discussion.

Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#789

Post by tripzilch »

buboard wrote: post #486
jayd16 wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then create a bank. But that's not what this is. They want to make a bank that prints its own currency and skips the paperwork needed for current monetary exchange. It's just as OP has said.

Libra is meant to be safer and better than a bank. Seems almost impossible to fail, it has 100% reserve backing while banks have < 2% in europe. It supports instant payments even in the most remote regions of the eart. It will be a terrible competitor for banks, if it works. The problem is that it s backed by a conglomerate that is too big to trust.

It's also backed by a conglomerate that simply hasn't been around long enough to be safer than a bank.

Yet in its short lifetime, Facebook has been able to prove itself very untrustworthy towards consumers.

It's not too big to trust, it's just untrustworthy. The fact that it's also big, makes trusting it an even worse idea.

Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#790

Post by otroqueccorre »

ngcc_hk wrote: post #646
lacker wrote: post #614

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But they don’t want to become a bank. They want to build a cryptocurrency. There are already hundreds of cryptocurrencies that operate in France and Germany, and the developers do not have to have banking licenses.

I have the same question in my first reaction. But then other than some bank owned one, they are not controlled by anyone. Can you access and exchange libra without Facebook account or banned Facebook account

For sure, the point is having conection to this cryptocurrencie network and a wallet. And its possible to exchange BTC for FBL also.
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