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France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

reuters.com

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Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#541

Post by alacombe »

narrator wrote: post #7
mrtksn wrote: post #4

Can someone familiar with Libra speculate how a ban can be implemented? What comes to my mind is forbidding Facebook selling and processing it for EU users but beyond that, I am not sure how a "black market" could be prevented.

Libra is run by a small group of nodes that have to pay $10 million dollars to get into the consortium. You just fine those companies and seize their assets until they shut down the network or obey the regulations.

It's not illegal for a company operating in country X to own assert in country Y which would otherwise be illegal in company X. At worst, company X move its headquarter, delegate ownership to a subsidiary, etc.

Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#542

Post by StreamBright »

downandout wrote: post #514
StreamBright wrote: post #499

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah they only know everything about 1B people and can swing elections but other than these they are just a regular company selling stuff.

There is zero evidence that any activity conducted on Facebook has ever actually swung a single election. As far as I can tell, that is hyperbole as well.

Absolutely. A $5 billion USD hyperbole.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facebook–Cambridge_Analytica_d...

"The governments of India[30][31] and Brazil[32][33] demanded that Cambridge Analytica report how anyone used data from the breach in political campaigning, and various regional governments in the United States have lawsuits in their court systems from citizens affected by the data breach.[34] On April 25, 2018, Facebook released their first earnings report since the scandal was reported. Revenue fell since the last quarter, but this is usual as it followed the holiday season quote. The quarter revenue was the highest for a first quarter, and the second overall.[35] In early July 2018, the United Kingdom's Information Commissioner's Office announced it intended to fine Facebook £500,000 ($663,000) over the data scandal, this being the maximum fine allowed at the time of the breach, saying Facebook "contravened the law by failing to safeguard people's information".[36] In March 2019, a court filing by the U.S. Attorney General for the District of Columbia alleged that Facebook knew of Cambridge Analytica's "improper data-gathering practices" months before they were first publicly reported in December 2015.[37] In July 2019, the Federal Trade Commission voted to approve fining Facebook around $5 billion to finally settle the investigation to the scandal, with a 3-2 vote.[38] Facebook established Social Science One as a response to the event."

Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#543

Post by theturtletalks »

dpau wrote: post #419
blackbrokkoli wrote: post #225

I'm of course not familiar with the specific mindsets and the history of this decision, but I want to share a bit of cultural perspective from Germany that is so far not really considered in this comment section: Germany is very, very keen on preventing powerful entities from acting outside of regulation and similarly, if not more, on preventing a single entity to get in control of everything. This is largely due to…

Last week I wanted to purchase a used item but discovered that, without warning or notification, Marketplace was deactivated from my Facebook account. My Facebook account is quite active, with posts, discussion in multiple groups, and hundreds of friends. I still have no clue as to what rule I triggered and no recourse to reactivate it. Now imagine that's my digital Libra bank account? No thanks.

That's a good point, but other companies do this without recourse. Paypal is the classic example. They will literally ban you overnight and hold your funds for months. Oh and forget knowing the reason, because revealing why you got banned would reveal too much about their filter algorithm.

The key is to diversify where you buy and how you buy it so you're not dependent on any one company.

Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#545

Post by alacombe »

buboard wrote: post #216
mrtksn wrote: post #4

Can someone familiar with Libra speculate how a ban can be implemented? What comes to my mind is forbidding Facebook selling and processing it for EU users but beyond that, I am not sure how a "black market" could be prevented.

Libra is a centralized, cryptocurrency. Facebook will abide by the law and not allow transactions from france & germany with the network.

I'm sure intermediary exchanges (either legal or illegal) will provide that service.

Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#547

Post by throwaway744678 »

the-dude wrote: post #323
blackbrokkoli wrote: post #225

I'm of course not familiar with the specific mindsets and the history of this decision, but I want to share a bit of cultural perspective from Germany that is so far not really considered in this comment section: Germany is very, very keen on preventing powerful entities from acting outside of regulation and similarly, if not more, on preventing a single entity to get in control of everything. This is largely due to…

From a history perspective : the hyperinflation leading up to the 3rd Reich.

That, my friend, is very close to a Godwin point. Let's be careful here.

Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#548

Post by throwaway744678 »

jeena wrote: post #363
lostlogin wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ll stick to using my money as money thanks. It works fine.

Not in Sweden anymore, most of the lunch places in Gothenburg where I live don't allow payment by cache anymore. If you have money but not digital, you will go hungry nowadays.

Is that even allowed? I don't know the specific law here, but in my country (France) a shop can not legally refuse to be paid in the legal currency (in cash). It can refuse credit card or checks, though.

Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#549

Post by usr1106 »

This was a political statement.

It is far from clear that Libra would be in conflict with existing laws. Probably new laws would need to be written to forbid it. Germany has not had any capital controls after WW2, so I don't take it for granted that such law would pass. On the other side Facebook's reputation in Germany might be even worse than in many other countries, so that could create political pressure, even if Libra is legally not the same as Facebook.

Personally as a consumer I see the biggest problem is customer support and accountability. Banks are not known for closing customers accounts and keeping the money. Internet giants are known for no customer support and (automatic?) deactivation of accounts for unspecified violations of terms of service. (Has happened to my Microsoft Drive where I stored 1 file, an encrypted backup. And HN readers have read about more cases)

Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#550

Post by smsm42 »

WhoBeI wrote: post #522
blackbrokkoli wrote: post #225

I'm of course not familiar with the specific mindsets and the history of this decision, but I want to share a bit of cultural perspective from Germany that is so far not really considered in this comment section: Germany is very, very keen on preventing powerful entities from acting outside of regulation and similarly, if not more, on preventing a single entity to get in control of everything. This is largely due to…

I was hoping this would happen. It will probably become a EU thing now. The idea of a privately controlled currency needs to die quickly. Never been a fan of crypto currency in general but Bitcoin, and the like, are accepted because they are not centralized. Your Bitcoin won't change in value or disappear because your country and another get in a fight.

There are lots of privately controlled currencies. Miles, points, certificates, game gold, etc. - they are all private currencies. Most of them aren't legal tender, but neither are cryptocurrencies. The only difference between facebook-coin and miles is that Facebook promises to encourage dealing in their coin and airline would frown on that. Not much difference otherwise. You have some tokens that you can exchange for things of value in some places.

> Your Bitcoin won't change in value or disappear because your country and another get in a fight

If one of them decides that banning bitcoin would serve their interests - it will get banned. You, of course, could work around it - as people do for centuries with drugs, guns and ideas proscribed by governments - but then you'd have to suffer the consequences when you're caught. Yes, when, because if you live in government's jurisdiction and they have interest in getting to you, they will.

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