Earlier quoted context omitted.
You are spreading blatant lies and propaganda. Anyone who actually reads his memo knows he never said this, or anything close to it! He was trying to promote the use of scientific consensus on male-female personality differences to more effectively be inclusive of females in the tech world. Does that sound unfamiliar? If so, it’s probably because you never read what he actually wrote, and instead just accepted unques…
There was a detailed investigation into his firing by the NLRB that found that he was not fired for having conservative views, but rather for having the potential to cause a hostile workplace for his suggestion that the difference in employment might be due to inherent biological differences between sexes.
Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’
781–790 of 901 posts
Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’
#782Earlier quoted context omitted.
Right, but Mozilla can't attract/keep great LGBTQ employees if the CEO believes that it is okay to actively oppress LGBTQ employees. By extension, this also extends to heterosexual employees who have LGBTQ friends and family members, or to any potential employees who believe in LGBTQ equality. ( And before anyone thinks that 'oppress' is too strong a word, the inability to marry caused tax and inheritance implication…
Oppress is still too strong. There is an a implications to everything. Have an opinion on healthcare, and someone might die according to you preferred version of it. He participated within the political system, he did not "[believe] that it is okay to actively oppress LGBTQ employees", except, in your interpretation, by participating in the political system. This extends to "any potential employees who believe in LGB…
[1] http://www.dictionary.com/browse/oppress
The real reason conservatives have so much trouble in liberal places is their outright refusal to acknowledge their political and social behavior is profoundly harmful to segments of society.
The solution is so, so, so easy: a conservative person should simply find somewhere else to live if they are unhappy in any geographic regions where a lot of liberals are busy using their constitutionally guaranteed right to freedom of expression to build the kind of society they want.
Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’
#783Earlier quoted context omitted.
Voicing such statements creates a hostile work environment for 1. your immigrant coworkers who entered the country on H1B or other visas; 2. coworkers who benefited from affirmative action to get into university; 3. friends/relatives of law-abiding-but-undocumented aliens. You might think you are just making abstract policy statements. But to your listeners, you are making threats to destroy their livelihood and thei…
As a member of a representative democracy, I should be able to hold and express political opinions on things like immigration and affirmative action without risking career death. The fact that I can't do so is beyond just sad, it's dangerous to our democracy in general.
Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’
#784Earlier quoted context omitted.
Right, but Mozilla can't attract/keep great LGBTQ employees if the CEO believes that it is okay to actively oppress LGBTQ employees. By extension, this also extends to heterosexual employees who have LGBTQ friends and family members, or to any potential employees who believe in LGBTQ equality. ( And before anyone thinks that 'oppress' is too strong a word, the inability to marry caused tax and inheritance implication…
The same argument works in reverse though. Clearly conservatives feel discriminated against at Google, and with good reason to do so - look at all the screenshots in Damore's legal complaint. Many comments from managers flat out stating that Trump supporters should be fired, or even anyone speaking out against such punishments should also be fired. So why does Pichai still have a job? We know the reason - because CEO…
In any case, conservatives at large are currently working on law that will allow people to discriminate at will against people if they feel like it infringes on their religious liberty. ( In fact, just such a law has already been passed in Indiana. Signed by Mike Pence. )
So while conservatives now complain bitterly about discrimination, they're the one's busily enshrining it in laws at various levels.
Imagine if a religious liberty bill passes. In fact, I can't wait. Then I can fire all my conservative employees en masse for offending my liberal Christian religious views.
Does that help you see why this madness must end? Why no one wants it?
Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’
#785Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'd call it descriptive. I cite it because I like The Atlantic and because I think it's one of the more balanced articles on the subject. It covers both sides of the story, including people who seem to be celebrating.
You'll have to be more specific. I'm struggling to find even a single paragraph that I would consider celebratory.
> Postgenocide Rwanda elected to heal itself by becoming the first country with a majority of women in parliament.
(where female dominance is described as "healing")
> In fact, the more women dominate, the more they behave, fittingly, like the dominant sex.
> she and her girlfriend (played by Beyoncé) kill a bad boyfriend and random others in a homicidal spree and then escape in their yellow pickup truck, Gaga bragging, “We did it, Honey B.”
That's just a few quotes from the article. I agree, it's mostly neutral.
For true celebration, it's probably necessary to look elsewhere...like Beyoncé's song Run The World (Girls).
Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’
#786Earlier quoted context omitted.
Normally I'd agree with you, but Trump is a special case.
No, he isn't. Democrats said the same thing about Bush, and they're saying the same thing about Pence. Anybody with an R next to their name would get the same backlash if they were president.
I still think that in terms of damage done Nixon was the worst we've had and Bush comes in second. Trump is dangerous in my opinion, but nothing so far comes close to what Bush did. It's strange that you make dislike of Bush sound unreasonable. It's perfectly reasonable.
Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’
#787Earlier quoted context omitted.
You are spreading blatant lies and propaganda. Anyone who actually reads his memo knows he never said this, or anything close to it! He was trying to promote the use of scientific consensus on male-female personality differences to more effectively be inclusive of females in the tech world. Does that sound unfamiliar? If so, it’s probably because you never read what he actually wrote, and instead just accepted unques…
There was a detailed investigation into his firing by the NLRB that found that he was not fired for having conservative views, but rather for having the potential to cause a hostile workplace for his suggestion that the difference in employment might be due to inherent biological differences between sexes.
Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’
#788Earlier quoted context omitted.
You are spreading blatant lies and propaganda. Anyone who actually reads his memo knows he never said this, or anything close to it! He was trying to promote the use of scientific consensus on male-female personality differences to more effectively be inclusive of females in the tech world. Does that sound unfamiliar? If so, it’s probably because you never read what he actually wrote, and instead just accepted unques…
There was a detailed investigation into his firing by the NLRB that found that he was not fired for having conservative views, but rather for having the potential to cause a hostile workplace for his suggestion that the difference in employment might be due to inherent biological differences between sexes.
Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’
#789Earlier quoted context omitted.
You are spreading blatant lies and propaganda. Anyone who actually reads his memo knows he never said this, or anything close to it! He was trying to promote the use of scientific consensus on male-female personality differences to more effectively be inclusive of females in the tech world. Does that sound unfamiliar? If so, it’s probably because you never read what he actually wrote, and instead just accepted unques…
There was a detailed investigation into his firing by the NLRB that found that he was not fired for having conservative views, but rather for having the potential to cause a hostile workplace for his suggestion that the difference in employment might be due to inherent biological differences between sexes.
* Evolution isn’t an atheist fact vs some religious alternate truth; evolution is a scientific fact.
* Personality differences (note: not to be confused with IQ or proficiency!) between male and female isn’t a conservative fact vs some liberal alternate; it’s a scientific fact.
Damore suggested we use these well established cross cultural personality differences to inspire positive improvements to the workplace that will allow women and men alike to more naturally be attracted to this line of work, and to thrive in it!
But because the scientifically uncontrovertial truths he quoted to formulate his argument are not currently considered “politically correct”, he was basically “crucified” and made an example of.
Scientific consensus is not conservative or liberal, religious or atheist, etc. Scientific consensus is the best unbiased reflection of reality we have.
Of course, any use of the words “fact” or “truth” must be qualified with the appropriate level of uncertainty — not even the best scientific establishments can reach fully 100% confidence — but may established scientific “facts” are called such because our uncertainty levels of them can become so incredibly low. The law of gravity, the claim that the world is not flat, and many others are clear examples of this.
We MUST stop politicizing the notion of “fact”, unless you really want to enter a post-truth world where unjustified opinions and feelings hold equal truth to scientific facts established with literal mountains of evidence and broad consensus.
If observing scientific fact creates a “hostile workplace” and is a fireable offense, then we have truly entered an Orwellian age of Wrongthink and Thoughtcrime, where we must all constantly police our own thoughts and utterance so as not to contradict the ideology of The Party.
He wasn’t even quoting scientific fact for hostile purposes; it appears entirely benevolently motivated, out of a desire to create an engineering culture more compatible with feminine personalities (which even many males have, as he points out!)
But because it touched a topic of political sensitivity and quotes a scientific fact that was “politically incorrect”, the truth of his argument, and even the well intentions of it, were made irrelevant. He was crucified, to make an example to all of what truths must never be spoken.
And this is why we can’t have nice things. Now we can’t even speak about making the workplace more suitable to women, because to discuss that would imply that there’s a difference in personality between women and men — and such a thing now can get you fired.
Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’
#790Earlier quoted context omitted.
Are there user statistics? Would love to see them.
You mean geographically? We're probably going to look at that again this week. If you email hn@ycombinator.com in a week or two we could send you the info. I might write a post about it.