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Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

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701–710 of 901 posts

Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#701

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not liberterianism or even standard Republicanism that seems to be an anathema to the tech crowd. It's populism and religious conservatism. But sense I'm neither populist or a religious conservative, I'm just as much in the bubble as anyone.

Exactly! Your coworkers just want you to leave your religion and xenophobia and or mild racism at home.

Why should anyone at work know my religious or political views? My views are mostly in line with the tech crowd - except I found I’m far more weary of government intervention into tech than many on HN. But I steer clear of political discussions at work.

Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#702

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, that’s because being conservative is socially okay. Being a Trump supporter is aligning with more than conservatism - it is signaling an acceptance of several divisive and socially toxic ideas. Society should and will continue to shun this openly.

> Society should and will continue Does society not include all the people that voted for Trump?

There is also a difference between a Trump voter and a Trump “supporter”. I know plenty of Republicans who held their noses and voted for Trump but don’t agree with his populist rants. They are not going to be wearing MAGA shirts or making excuses for him.

Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#703
post #672
post #666

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I don't see anything obvious with a quick Google search, and anybody complaining about that seems to start throwing around words like "antifa" so my skepticism and troll alerts are on maximum. HOWEVER , Damore is a REALLY good example of the kind nitwit snowflake that deserves all the approbation he is receiving. If you are sitting in a corporation and are about to do something that is going to cause political shockw…

Evidence in Damore's lawsuit has some rather interesting tidbits about antifa, but while they are not very nice people at all, they are not really relevant to this discussion, I think. It also has evidence of physicasl threats. Those made it to the recently dropped/dismissed NLRB complaint, and it seems (was mentioned in a thread on HM, for sure) that peple involved had received very stern slaps on their wrists. Now,…

> It also has evidence of physicasl threats. Those made it to the recently dropped/dismissed NLRB complaint, and it seems (was mentioned in a thread on HM, for sure) that peple involved had received very stern slaps on their wrists.

Please do put a link if you can find it easily. Wading through the history on HN is non-trivial. I will certainly accept legally filed complaints as evidence.

And, they damn sure should have gotten more than slaps on the wrist for threats of physical violence.

> he did a) what Google asked him to do -- provided feedback

And even if I were doing this on a technical issue, I'm going to make sure my arguments are solid before I send it into the ether if the issue is going to cause political grief. That's just common sense.

> stronger than any debunkings of his memo

This one from the Economist is a good general start (I chose the Economist because it doesn't really fall in the "liberal rag" category that most people would place things like Salon, Wired, etc.) https://www.economist.com/news/international/21726276-last-w...

There are lots of other problems with his memo that the whole "social science" field that he is quoting has come under strong dispute in the last decade or so.

The most significant point is that Damore ignores any evidence that doesn't support his point. If you're going to be controversial, you have to explain the stuff that doesn't agree with you as well.

> But faulting him for being fired over a memo that he didn't leak

I thought he explicitly posted it to internal Google circulation. I really hate how it moved to the press (people who did THAT should be fired as well), but I do not believe that he simply gave a confidential memo to HR and then it got leaked. Please do correct me if I am wrong.

Should Damore have lost his job? In my opinion, no.

However, only an idiot goes looking for bear without a really big gun and being surprised when he gets mauled.

Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#704

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trump deported more people already living in the US ; Clinton and Obama deported more at the border, by enough that total deportations were higher.

Turning away somebody at a border is not deportation.

Well, it's been counted that way since the 2nd bush administration

Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#705
post #427

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>You'd have to be insane to actually argue (and it seems thats what you're doing) I think it's unlikely we'll be able to have a productive conversation. Have a good day!

I don't see why not

you insane-shamed ze

Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#706
post #437

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does conservatism mean to you? When you say 'conservative', what beliefs are you describing?

These terms are ambiguous and have fluid meaning. But in general, anything on the Republican party platform, or supported by a substantial portion of Republicans or self-identified conservatives, is something I would consider part of mainstream conservatism. Quick examples include: * That affirmative action should be illegal or more heavily restricted. * That unlawful residents should be removed from the country, eve…

Voicing such statements creates a hostile work environment for

1. your immigrant coworkers who entered the country on H1B or other visas;

2. coworkers who benefited from affirmative action to get into university;

3. friends/relatives of law-abiding-but-undocumented aliens.

You might think you are just making abstract policy statements. But to your listeners, you are making threats to destroy their livelihood and their families. Of course they react negatively!

How would you react if someone, in the name of abstract policy, argued that people belonging to your demographic group don't deserve jobs or should be kicked out of the country?

Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#707

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Work is for working; it's not a debating society, and especially not when the debating is done in bad faith. If this were actually true of the current milieu of tech employment in the bay area, I'd likely still be a willing and active participant in that workforce. Substantial energy is wasted discussing ideologies and arranging/having meetings on what are fundamentally social issues we're not realistically fixing…

> SJW Ah the SJW boogyman. A quick way to get anybody with a functioning brain to dismiss everything you say.

It's just the counterpart of the "racist" boogyman.

Why is it terrible to dismiss people by calling them SJWs, but not calling them racist.

Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#708

Earlier quoted context omitted.

White resentment becomes possible only when one ceases to care about facts. (Ex. http://www.mdcbowen.org/p2/rm/reports/cerd.pdf )

This is part of what makes it so pernicious - they feel persecuted, but everyone else can see that they're firmly in control of everything. So it gets pointed out that they're not actually persecuted, which makes the White Moderate feel more persecuted and ignored, pushing them further right. Frustrating, but I don't know what you can do about it.

[deleted]

Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#709

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I notice you didn't include Alt-right in there which at the moment seem to be political ideology on a big rise and in my personal opinion, I think it's generally less radical than communism. Consider though that one thing the alt-right will never accept is that racial diversity in the workplace is a net positive in itself. Whether it's true or false, it's just apart of the parcel. Now how would someone like that feel…

> being against racial diversity is racist That made me stop and think. I'm trying to imagine a picture of someone who is against racial diversity but isn't remotely racist and whilst I agree there's no logical contradiction inherent in that position I do struggle to think of a realistic portrait of such an individual. I might be missing something here but can you spell out this position for me in a bit more detail?…

> I do struggle to think of a realistic portrait of such an individual

Maybe because those individuals know to keep their mouths shut?

Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#710

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Brendan Eich, James Damore?

Damore wasn't fired because he is a conservative. He was fired because he thinks women are inferior wrt tech and was very vocal about it.

You are spreading blatant lies and propaganda. Anyone who actually reads his memo knows he never said this, or anything close to it! He was trying to promote the use of scientific consensus on male-female personality differences to more effectively be inclusive of females in the tech world.

Does that sound unfamiliar? If so, it’s probably because you never read what he actually wrote, and instead just accepted unquestioning the media propaganda.

Many news sources also spread the same lie you are, so I assume you’re just parroting the headlines (like many of us are guilty of). The problem is, the dishonesty of this propaganda does real harm.

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