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Framework Laptop 13 Pro

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Re: Framework Laptop 13 Pro

#771

Post by jack_arleth »

jonf3n wrote: post #767
Sephr wrote: post #103

My main gripes: - There's zero mention of the display technology, just "2.8K Touchscreen Display" - The optional HDMI ("3rd Gen") adapter is only 4K 60hz, when the host chip has integrated Thunderbolt 4 which can output 4K 240Hz

Yes, it is HDMI version 2.0b -- they seem to try and hide that. Really need TB5 and HDMI 2.1 at least!

HDMI 2.1 is basically blocked by the HDMI forum: "... This isn’t some unsolved mystery buried deep in kernel code. The issue sits with the HDMI Forum, which controls the HDMI 2.1 specification. To implement it fully, you need to agree to licensing terms that clash hard with open-source licenses like GPL. ..." Source: https://www.makeuseof.com/hdmi-forum-is-holding-back-linux-a...

So I can perfectly imagine a small hardware vendor like Framework being unable to get support for this. Perhaps DP is a better solution for your use-case?

Re: Framework Laptop 13 Pro

#773

Post by 999900000999 »

MostlyStable wrote: post #743
999900000999 wrote: post #521

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was just at an event. The vibe I got was the quality is really bad, BUT the people who like Framework and believe in it gladly just buy another one. Not for me though. Within 6 months we’ll see similar specs from other oems at 50 to 70% of the price

>gladly just buy another one. I'm not going to weigh in on quality issues (I have had a 16 for a little over a year and it's been great, but it probably gets far less abuse the way I use it than average), but I'm surprised to hear this because the whole point of Framework is that when something breaks you don't need to "buy another one". You just buy the specific part that broke. Chassis warped? Buy the top/bottom/wh…

The mainboard is what appears to go wrong and it ends up being the same price as many competing laptops.

Maybe this will be different with the pro, but no one knows until they actually ship.

As for the Framework 16, I brought a 5070TI laptop recently for around 1200$ after a nice rebate. After a bit of complaining( which was also needed to honor the rebate ), they added a second year warranty too.

For the Framework 16, with the 5070 addon(which has 8GB of VRAM compared to the 12GB on the 5070TI).

Sure, the framework might be better, but is it worth twice as much ?

Re: Framework Laptop 13 Pro

#774

Post by dismalaf »

nottorp wrote: post #742
dismalaf wrote: post #716

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What I remember is Intel GPUS being unable to do even that. Maybe in the days of HD graphics cards... I've got a Tiger Lake chipset and the Xe iGPU outperforms the laptop 3050 dGPU in actual games (due to having access to waaaaaay more RAM).

Well it's hard to erase a crap reputation. During the previous chip crisis when covid and crypto were waning I needed a new desktop. Damned if I was going to buy a discrete video card at those prices so I went AMD integrated graphics. Didn't even stop to look at Intel. (For the record said desktop has a discrete GPU now, but I bought it like 2 years after I built the desktop.)

Dunno, AMD (and ATI) had a poor reputation for years and only rehabbed it when they released the Zen architecture in 2017. Even then it took a few generations to be seen as better than Intel.

Intel has had a positive reputation the vast majority of the time from 1990 up to now, with only the last few years being bad.

Re: Framework Laptop 13 Pro

#775

Post by iririririr »

llbbdd wrote: post #216
iririririr wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

They were accused of that by people who didn't understand that batteries degrade over time, and the resulting legal suits were entirely about disclosing the throttling, not the throttling itself. Newer iPhone models still do the exact same thing, they just provide more information about it, and let you toggle it off. The idea that they were doing this maliciously never made sense anyway, customers who haven't upgrade…

yet they released a "fix" later.

you're just eating up the damage control narrative they pushed later, on ios18. and they also pushed it in 26 for some reason

Re: Framework Laptop 13 Pro

#776

Post by nottorp »

dismalaf wrote: post #774
nottorp wrote: post #742

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well it's hard to erase a crap reputation. During the previous chip crisis when covid and crypto were waning I needed a new desktop. Damned if I was going to buy a discrete video card at those prices so I went AMD integrated graphics. Didn't even stop to look at Intel. (For the record said desktop has a discrete GPU now, but I bought it like 2 years after I built the desktop.)

Dunno, AMD (and ATI) had a poor reputation for years and only rehabbed it when they released the Zen architecture in 2017. Even then it took a few generations to be seen as better than Intel. Intel has had a positive reputation the vast majority of the time from 1990 up to now, with only the last few years being bad.

> Intel has had a positive reputation

For integrated GPUs? Both sides were crap until Zen. I just didn't notice Intel caught up.

> from 1990 up to now

For CPUs they're fortunately still playing catch up with each other. You remember when AMD released Zen, but do you remember when Intel released the Core stuff and how crap Pentium 4 / Netburst was right before that?

Re: Framework Laptop 13 Pro

#777

Post by Agingcoder »

nrp wrote: post #426
Agingcoder wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This looks suspiciously like something I could buy : a lightweight well made Linux laptop, with long battery life. I currently use a MacBook and won’t get near a windows machine. Two questions 1/ will there be a 15 inches version ? ( I’m not getting any younger I like bigger screens ) 2/ software-wise how reliable are the suspend/resume and all the laptop features ? I’ve been using Linux for about 30y and to me this…

As other comments have noted, we have Framework Laptop 16 for folks who want bigger screens, and we had some updates for that product today too: haptic touchpad option and an entry-level Ryzen 5 version. We've been sending pre-release hardware to developers at a bunch of distros to make sure that the core use cases like suspend/resume work as expected out of the box. You can check our general Linux support at frame.w…

It is unfortunately very heavy (2.4kg vs 1.5 for my mb air 15)

I take note though that the 13 inches framework is bigger than it seems because of the aspect ratio

Re: Framework Laptop 13 Pro

#778

Post by dangus »

stavros wrote: post #638
dangus wrote: post #570

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely don’t buy the AMD 300 series chips in the current Framework 13” lineup. Panther Lake is what you want. It’s a large leapfrog over what AMD has been offering for this product category. You’ll get far better battery life for all use cases as well as performance that matches or beats AMD. Also, if you select the X7 you’re getting the best integrated graphics on the market that isn’t made by Apple - basically…

This is a great answer, very helpful. Thanks!

Another piece of correction to myself…I was reviewing benchmarks and I was a bit too excited about the CPU performance specifically.

Something like a Ryzen AI HX370 and even the 350 does perform better than the 8 core X7 Intel chip, along with a number of other options.

But on the graphics side, the Intel is really fantastic.

And of course we are talking about a thin and light laptop where you’re going to appreciate stellar battery life a lot more than exceptional performance for the most part.

Re: Framework Laptop 13 Pro

#779

Post by derekp7 »

headsman771 wrote: post #488
TechPlasma wrote: post #478

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now that you have a custom touch-screen. How long until you release a tablet (Surface-pro-like) form factor? I'm still using my 2017 Surface Pro because the form factor is amazing, but no one has come up with anything to compete with it. I know it's not the most ideal form factor for a repairable device, but I can dream.

I would love a good Linux tablet with long battery life, repairability be damned.

The biggest issue with a Linux tablet, is you don't have a lot of tablet apps for Linux. Desktop apps don't translate to tablet usage that well. I found that out when I was using a Chromebook tablet, with the Linux mode add-in. Tried using things like openoffice, even firefox, and there were just too many issues (smaller tap targets, things like dragging your finger on a window selecting text (i.e., what a mouse would do) instead of scrolling like you would expect on a tablet of phone, etc).

So you are either running Linux with a web browser that has a tablet mode, and making sure all apps are web apps adapted for mobile or at least non-keyboard use. Or you re-invent Android. One thing that somewhat worked was Nokia's Maemo -- it used X11, but the defined UI toolkit and guidelines made everything uniform and touch-screen friendly. Not sure about how the successor projects look if they are what I remember from Maemo / Meego (so maybe Sailfish or Tizen, not sure how open these are though).

Re: Framework Laptop 13 Pro

#780

Post by cromka »

morserer wrote: post #764
babylon5 wrote: post #228

Nice upgrades, but no mention of ECC RAM, the single thing that I wanted from an upgrade for a decade? Why do chip makers refuse to take our money? :-P A few years ago we were told only "Pro" parts have ECC: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37828168

Confused, doesn't all DDR5 support inline ECC by default? Or are you talking about the ability to enable it in the BIOS/OS?

You mean On-die ECC. That's not the same as regular ECC.
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