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Honda is killing its EVs

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Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#771

Post by Robotbeat »

trashb wrote: post #737
generic92034 wrote: post #675

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least in places with strong consumer rights I imagine there could be regulation to force vendors keeping their old cars repairable.

This could be but in practice it doesn't work. Both the governments and the manufacturer benefit from you driving a newer vehicle instead of keeping your old car running. Topics like environmental impact safety etc. are higher priority compared to repair-ability. Additionally most people don't care. Additionally there is the issue of licensing and regulation around the hardware and software of a vehicle. The regulati…

In my experience, it does actually work. Tesla model s had an issue with the flash memory endurance, and the NHTSA made them replace it. Which they did, and upgraded the 3G modem to LTE while they were at it. My 2013 Model S is still going strong, still gets software updates.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#772

Post by etempleton »

I think what people want out of an EV is the Honda Civic and CRV. Nice practical, reliable low cost EVs that don’t feel cheap or weird. The Tesla model 3 and Y are so close. But there is weirdness to it that a lot of consumers aren’t really interested in an that is before you factor in the polarizing nature of Elon himself.

Maybe we aren’t there yet. The Model 3 and Y are probably still too expensive without incentives.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#773

Post by dmpk2k »

Vinnl wrote: post #749
ggm-at-algebras wrote: post #349

In Shenzhen for a tech meeting. The streetscape is quieter, despite high traffic levels and I hear not only MORE birdsong, but the birds do more complex songlines. The air is clean. For sure some of this is because it's a coastal city and has fresh sea breezes, but I've been in other Chinese coastal cities in times past and the air was significantly less clean. There are social upsides for an almost-all-EV city. This…

AFAIK, beyond a certain speed (~25km/h?), EVs make just as much noise as ICEs, since the noise is then mainly generated by the tyres hitting the road. So I'm somewhat sceptical about this claim. Dutch city centres can be really crowded and yet actually quiet, because there are practically no cars. It's probably not Shenzen-level crowded, but I'd bet that the number of people that are being transported at busy locatio…

While true (beyond 30-50km/h), that assumes that cars are driving at a steady state. Obviously, cities with much more stop-and-go require more revving of engines.

Acoustic tyres are also gradually becoming the norm, primarily with EVs. This cuts noise by several decibels.

So it's not an unreasonable claim per se.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#774

Post by SayThatSh »

As much as I love tech in my cars, I’ve found that the more you add, the more will eventually fail. If you really must integrate more software, make it free and guarantee X years of support. If that means a more expensive car, so be it let the market decide if it’s worthwhile. Subscriptions hide the cost and inflate the popularity of vehicles that otherwise may not have been purchased.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#775

Post by tialaramex »

Symbiote wrote: post #700
tialaramex wrote: post #454

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's actually not clear to me in what sense "banned" is used here. The UK never formally "banned" leaded petrol. They banned sales of new cars which need it, and then later told places which sell petrol that they can only have a small portion of their fuel as leaded, and then (as anticipated) market forces did the rest. AFAICT it would still be legal for the place on the bypass near me to sell leaded fuel but they do…

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/eli/dir/1998/70/oj/eng This EU directive banned the sale of leaded petrol in the UK on 1 January 2000.

Hmm. The thing is, EU directives aren't themselves law, or rather, in a sense they are but they're laws for the EU member states, telling them that they need to legislate to achieve this thing but without specifying how. The EU can write legislation which is binding on actual citizens, but it mostly writes directives, like this, which just tell the member states to do the legislating.

So, was this directive actually implemented by the UK before it left? Or did they go "Eh, we achieved the intended goal anyway, no action" ?

This way the EU doesn't have to worry about weird edge cases where the EU wants to control Foozling of Doodads but it turns out that in Poland ordinary people often Foozle their own Doodad at home and so their approach needs to consider individual citizens who want to Foozle a Doodad, but in Ireland that's crazy and you pay one of a few dozen Registered Doodad Foozlers to do it at scale, requiring a very different regulation to achieve the same goal.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#776

Post by torginus »

pmontra wrote: post #595
neya wrote: post #453

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people including the author think more software = premium/better. But as software engineers, we know better. That's not the case at all. More software = more control by everyone else except you. Manufacturers. Governments. For this reason, I always avoid cars with big flashy LCD screens that are central to controlling the cars accessories like sunroof, AC and other electricals. The other issue is support. So man…

It's not only bug fixing. It's what happens to phones too: updates for a fixed number of years. I don't see the point to pay a premium for a new car (it's not a tool for my work) so I always buy second hand. My Citroën C3 from 2016 never upgraded to the new backward incompatible Android auto from the late 2010s. I bought it in 2020 and I wasn't able to connect to it with my phone from 2019 which came with the new And…

I don't understand how they can get away with this even. Imagine if they discover a root exploit in whatever old version of Android they're running.

Now if there's no update, people can just hack your car via the internet or Bluetooth. While your infotainment can't access the ICU usually, they're connected via Canbus which has zero provisions for security, and taking over your whole car is usually quite easy from this point, as many have demonstrated.

And even if there's a fix, you have to drive to the service center who might not even update your car for free.

I'm just surprised how this hasn't ended in disaster already.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#777

Post by odo1242 »

MetaWhirledPeas wrote: post #432
billfor wrote: post #129

"Here, Honda is setting itself up for failure on the second disruption sweeping the automotive industry: the software-defined vehicle (SDV), which has core capabilities that can be upgraded and improved over time." I'll pay triple for a non software defined vehicle that doesn't track me and can't be touched by the dealer once I purchase it. My one SDV (Tesla) is still on FSD from 2023 because the newer versions are t…

> I'll pay triple for a non software defined vehicle that doesn't track me and can't be touched by the dealer once I purchase it. But you didn't? So... you wouldn't really? I don't mean to be too cute but I think it's worth taking the sting out of your words a bit. Maybe you would prefer a different choice for your next car, but that's a far less dramatic way of putting it.

Those options don’t really exist though. The cars that cost 3x as much (new ones at least) are also doing the same thing.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#778

Post by deaux »

rob74 wrote: post #266
appreciatorBus wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the drug dealer that knows you don't consumer your own supply unless you must So true. There's nothing incompatible at all with: a) realizing that earth has gifted you with a valuable but limited & polluting energy source b) realizing that you'd be foolish to get you own country hooked on it, but it's not a bad business if you can get other countries hooked on it. Instead we get oil rich areas seemingly determined…

Wow, so now the US oil barons who lobbied Trump to kill renewables and EVs are even worse than Mohammed "Bonesaw*" bin Salman Al Saud? That's really something, if you look at it that way... * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_Jamal_Khashog...

Yes? I don't think you can argue in good faith that the latter causes more total harm and damage than the former. It's really quite something to look at it in a different way..

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#780

Post by haunter »

etempleton wrote: post #772

I think what people want out of an EV is the Honda Civic and CRV. Nice practical, reliable low cost EVs that don’t feel cheap or weird. The Tesla model 3 and Y are so close. But there is weirdness to it that a lot of consumers aren’t really interested in an that is before you factor in the polarizing nature of Elon himself. Maybe we aren’t there yet. The Model 3 and Y are probably still too expensive without incentiv…

The new Renault 5 EV is basically this
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