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What caused the 'baby boom'? What would it take to have another?

derekthompson.org

771–780 of 927 posts

Re: What caused the 'baby boom'? What would it take to have another?

#771

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yet they are doing fine. Are they? What's the current status of their retirement accounts? What are their plans for funding their kids' educations? Do they own their own homes? There's a difference between being able to survive and living a good life. The reason the more financially literate and educated people put off having kids is because they care about their own futures and the futures of their kids. They know…

When aging population cannot be supported by enough young hands joining the economy, retirement accounts won't mean much. One can't eat digits, or take them as medicine. Money is as useful as you can exchange them for somebody's work.

I agree.

That doesn't change the reality of self-interest.

If someone is struggling to take care of themselves, why would they have children? Heck, if you have people working 80+ hours a week just to stay housed, when can they find time to have kids?

Cruel societies punish people for having kids. We have a cruel society. The 90s "welfare queen" talk caused the US federal and state governments to gut social programs specifically designed to aid and support people in having families.

For so many people, affording the necessities requires 2 incomes. Childcare either takes out an income or it incurs a huge new necessity.

And then there's always the impact of "what if the child has a disability" in that case most people are really truly screwed in the US if that happens.

Re: What caused the 'baby boom'? What would it take to have another?

#772
post #720

It's the economy, stupid. Most younger people can't afford homes. People's money doesn't go as far as it used to. Academic qualifications are worth less than they used to be. Many people currently working now won't see a pension. Many won't see a good paying job, even with good academic qualifications and work experience. General health and wellbeing is getting worse, with businesses abusing human psychology to shift…

There is an unbroken evolutionary thread of more than 4.5 billion years of evolution from the very first organism to you. Every one of our ancestors made it, and chances are they did so in more difficult and perilous circumstances than we can imagine. You can as well. This kind of doomerism is only accessible because you have social media and global news networks that expose you to the negativity bias of humanity. Th…

> Child care is accessible and affordable if you look in the right places and are willing to be creative.

That is really not the case.

> And children do not meaningfully detract from any other positive sides of life.

Honestly, they actually quite often do. You are not allowed to talk about it, but reality of it is that you loose a lot.

Re: What caused the 'baby boom'? What would it take to have another?

#773

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Divorce laws vary by state. California is equal property, and alimony kicks in immediately (no minimum length of marriage). As a female, higher earner, I paid my ex-husband alimony for a 1 yr 9 month marriage.

Do you feel that this is a fair way to distribute earnings upon divorce? When no children are involved? My interpretation is that one should not marry somebody who earns significantly less than them due to how courts will force payments with the possibility of jail time.

My take is that the spirit of the law is to compensate spouses for sacrifices and risks they took in support of the other spouse. So for example, if Spouse A reduces their earning potential for Spouse B (ex. a military spouses are disadvantaged in their careers b/c they move constantly, if a doctor moves to a rural area that can support their career but not their spouse's career etc) then Spouse A should be compensated by Spouse B because Spouse B's career growth depended on Spouse A sacrificing theirs. Other examples are if a Spouse stays home to care for dependents, if a Spouse puts another Spouse through graduate / medical / law school etc. It's about acknowledging that you gained because of someone else's actions and compensating for that, honoring your debts as it were.

I do not feel that the alimony I paid aligned with the spirit of the law, but it did align with the letter of the law in California.

Re: What caused the 'baby boom'? What would it take to have another?

#774
post #381
post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Women aren't able to attract the mates they want Women set expectation bar so high, only top 5% of men meet.

In 20 years, with more women than men going to college, a lot of women aren’t going to find partners if they want someone that matched or exceeds their education level.

Except that women with college degree are marrying around as much as in the past. It is women without college degrees who are not marrying.

Re: What caused the 'baby boom'? What would it take to have another?

#775
post #161

My $0.02 is being a mom sucks. In modern relationships, men just want to work and come home to a cooked meal and clean house, but their wives are working just as many hours the men are. Having kids means tension in relationship, unpaid labor by the woman, and stress parenting kids. Even if the husband steps up, he still can't breast feed for 3 hours per day. Pregnancy is really terrible on the woman's body. Post-part…

No - being a mom and having to work full time sucks. Being a full time mom probably isn't that bad.

Being full time mom sux. Genuinely.

Re: What caused the 'baby boom'? What would it take to have another?

#776
It's not that deep. Young couples need to have a primal sense of home and safety to want to raise kids, and no young people can afford a 3+ bedroom home anymore. And it's gone on so long now that "not wanting to have kids" has entered the culture and become a big part of many people's personalities today. But it all starts with the affordability of homes.

As to why life is less affordable today and getting worse, I would start here: https://www.suerf.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/f_fa99ccdbe...

Re: What caused the 'baby boom'? What would it take to have another?

#777
post #720

It's the economy, stupid. Most younger people can't afford homes. People's money doesn't go as far as it used to. Academic qualifications are worth less than they used to be. Many people currently working now won't see a pension. Many won't see a good paying job, even with good academic qualifications and work experience. General health and wellbeing is getting worse, with businesses abusing human psychology to shift…

There is an unbroken evolutionary thread of more than 4.5 billion years of evolution from the very first organism to you. Every one of our ancestors made it, and chances are they did so in more difficult and perilous circumstances than we can imagine. You can as well. This kind of doomerism is only accessible because you have social media and global news networks that expose you to the negativity bias of humanity. Th…

> This kind of doomerism is only accessible because you have social media and global news networks that expose you to the negativity bias of humanity.

I have zero social media, don't read the news, and have a happy stable lifestyle. I can afford to raise kids and ten years ago, yeah go for it. I wanted to have children.

Now? no way. My generation stops with me and many others my age (36) echo the same statement. I don't want to push kids through the next up-generations of the shite that's starting to pile up now.

"it's you because of X" is a strawman argurement. The world is bleak it's not a happy place but your welcome to keep that illusion.

We have wars, we have povetry, we have divide. Will it get better? Maybe, the future will decide but with my history of life doesn't feel like it will be anytime soon, I've seen in the past twenty years; how long do I wait for?

I like to think the good will always outweigh the evil however until something does come along and dethrones the current evil, issue consquences for their actions we are stuck here in a swurling-black-hole of dispair. That's realism and will that be you? Because I like to think it will be me. I can walk outside my apartment and see how shite it all is.

We have achieved so much, people are more educated than past generations, vaccines, advance technologies and the rest which is great. And now have a text box where you can ask a silly question of your choice and some robot will spit out the answer. Amazing stuff, the caveat being those running these systems are those who are producing the dysoptian mist.

> you can raise a family on a smaller budget than you'd imagine. Children are way less expensive than adults.

This is fallacy, i'm no father but there is much more expense then just feeding kids. What if your child get's ill? Need's special tutoring? Has a disability? Wants to learn to horse ride? Fair assumption if all kids were born equal but life isn't like that.

What if the "budget" ends up being cancelled, say losing your job because of some political reform and cuts? How do you raise children when themselves have no money; poverty is only increasing. Please tell because I'm sure their are plenty of homeless who would love to have that life hack.

The past didn't have rapid game changing technology like we have now.

Just because we are always evolving doesn't mean we can afford to in the future. I wouldn't be surprised if the next stage of evolution are desiginer-babies. Artfically created in a lab and ready to be posted to you to cradle. Some exec's wet dream and it's already in the making.

This isn't doomerism, this is real life, reality. Try looking outside the walled gardens and maybe you'll see the past, the present and the curtian of the future holding futuristic lies and corruption of the real world that shroud the real harmony of humanity.

We are at the best time in humanity but that can only be said by those who can afford it. Being pesstistmic is a downer, but being optistmic is bloody hard at the moment and to think some angel will come down from the sky and save us all, I won't stop you from dreaming.

Re: What caused the 'baby boom'? What would it take to have another?

#778
post #687

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an unusual take. People in the past made 4-10 babies per family and they did it by being celibate until marriage. Sex positivity and casual relationships were not normal, and grandparents encouraged marriage before sex, probably because the grandparents knew they’d be partially responsible for raising the kid and wanted to ensure two parents to help care for their grandchildren

This is completely a-historical. Humans have been having sex outside of marriage since that concept was invented and you’re projecting an idealized Western European view on an entire world with a complex history of different cultures. What you’re describing isn’t even true of European history (e.g. read up on hand fasting or the high rates of marriage after pregnancy) and it’s even less so globally. Marriage is in pa…

This isn’t a western view, it’s literally how the majority of the world still operates. Marriage is not an abrahamic invention, it happens in eastern cultures, middle eastern cultures, african cultures, it’s basically universal.

Before contraceptives sex outside of marriage results in children born out of wedlock. This is catastrophic for the mothers, their families, and for the child.

In the past they used to build temples dedicated to Moloch for sacrificing unwanted babies. The Israelites looked down on this practice, and instead insisted on marriage with rules: thou shalt not commit adultery, thou shalt not covet thy neighbor’s wife. These rules were crucial for social stability.

Why is marriage and punishment for adultery universal? Because a two parent household is the only healthy way to raise kids and ensure wealth is preserved between generations. This has always been true.

Re: What caused the 'baby boom'? What would it take to have another?

#779

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an unusual take. People in the past made 4-10 babies per family and they did it by being celibate until marriage. Sex positivity and casual relationships were not normal, and grandparents encouraged marriage before sex, probably because the grandparents knew they’d be partially responsible for raising the kid and wanted to ensure two parents to help care for their grandchildren

People have always been and will always have casual sex. People didn't used to be perfect Christian monogamous couples until the 60s. We just punish people less for it than we used to which is a good thing.

Before contraceptives, there was no such thing as casual sex (except for the homosexual kind).

Sex produced babies, 2% of women died in childbirth. Children need a father to help provide and protect, without that, babies were often just abandoned in the woods.

There’s nothing casual about that.

Re: What caused the 'baby boom'? What would it take to have another?

#780

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good news is if your income is still low by the time they head to college, depending on the state, in-state tuition to a state college will be reasonable or free. If your income is higher by then, it'll probably be ok.

With the current US government, I would not count on the state subsidizing your tuition.

Well there is that.
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