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Young people are flocking to astrology

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Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#771

Post by biomcgary »

nradov wrote: post #603
jncfhnb wrote: post #590

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s a good point but it’s not equal. Myers Briggs is nice a framework. You can just look at the axes of personality and use them to structure a claim about where you land. The test is not the important bit. I think many people have not considered the dimensions of personality that it proposes. Astrology not so much. You can’t describe yourself as a linear combination of different signs or at least, you’re not meant…

Myers Briggs seems so arbitrary . Why 4 dimensions instead of 3 or 5? And is there any reliable evidence that using it actually produces better outcomes?

The Big Five model was extracted from English language words describing personality (later applied to other languages, where sometimes 6 factors are needed). It has no theory behind it (other than, "I think languages evolve to capture interpersonal dynamics").

As feanaro noted, the 4 dimensions of MBTI is fairly correlated with four of the five factors of the Big 5 (or OCEAN) model. It leaves out neuroticism, which might be helpful in a business context, since you can put a positive spin on both ends of those 4 dimensions. I've seen MBTI extended by adding a Turbulent-Assertive axis to include neuroticism without the pejorative label.

Research has shown that classifying people into the 16 types reduced the statistical predictive power. Nevertheless, the types have value for didactic purposes. It can be easier to understand personality differences by contrasting the extremes rather than the vast muddle of people near the median. Once you can see how extreme differences manifest, it is easier to recognize the more subtle (and statistically more frequent) differences.

Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#772

Post by maxlamb »

rsynnott wrote: post #356
LargeTomato wrote: post #37

My girlfriend is in the middle of her PhD program and is very intelligent but she's really into this stuff. She makes comments about it in public and I cringe. But the worst part is that half my female friends and all my gay friends love astrology. It's very weird.

Straight men, of course, prefer MBTI. Personality divination magic is somewhat gender-coded. (I'm gay and haven't noticed astrology being particularly popular with gay men, though it may be regional.)

MBTI is an attempt at classification of people's personalities at a high level from a series of questions. That just seems fundamentally different than "I will predict your future based on what day you are born".

Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#773

Post by InitialLastName »

valianteffort wrote: post #375
varjag wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no qualitative difference between belief in astrology and any of the world's religions. Not saying you're not entitled in disregarding astrology believers but the cut-off point is completely arbitrary and dare I say irrational.

I'm sure on some level, the position of the earth, moon, sun, and planets has some effect on all life. These things are intertwined afterall. It would be interesting to gather data that could make assertions about someone based on when they were born. However it's clear other things have a far grater impact on someones development, like whether they have a father, financial situation, etc.

> I'm sure on some level, the position of the earth, moon, sun, and planets has some effect on all life.

Ask any (mostly pre-industrial) farmer or sailor: the positions of the sun and the moon are profoundly influential to their day-to-day lives.

Even I, an urban, post-industrial home office laborer make meaningful changes to my activities depending on whether the sun is in the sky.

Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#774

Post by cyanfrog »

What about the coorelation of higher probability of narcissistic traits among people interested in astrology? There are few studies about this. Maybe modern society harbors values that invite such narrative to emerge and so we see increase in interests that reflect this?

Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#775

Post by goku12 »

kykeonaut wrote: post #492

What interests me about the article is the fallout between astronomy and astrology, akin to the fallout between medicine and magic. Western scientific culture is so obsessed with the tangible that we minimize (and to some point ridicule) spirituality, although science and spirituality at some point were once one and the same. Human beings need spiritual experiences, and "young" people flocking to astrology seems like…

This explanations have so many logical issues. It feels like hand waving.

- The false dichotomy between 'western' science and spiritual (eastern? ancient?) science. There is just one science that's defined by scientific methods. Almost every culture knew this method.

- The implication that at some point in the past, science also dealt with intangible things. Science is always based on evidence. Rest was always in the realm of mysticism.

- That spirituality is about the intangible. It has been shown that people can get spiritual experiences from many non-religious and tangible things like music, meditation, arts, nature and martial-arts.

- That 'western' science minimize and ridicule spirituality. Science practitioners ridicule illogical things like astrology. But spirituality and its importance has been the subject of several serious scientific studies. I haven't seen one study that simply dismisses spirituality.

- Though not directly said, there is implication that astrology is a spiritual experience. Sure! If you're deluding yourself. But having studied a bit of vedic astrology myself, I never found the practice to be spiritually touching at all. The only part that I found valuable was the ancient mathematics/astronomy that precedes the prediction stage. If astrology can be considered as spiritual, then flat-earth beliefs can also be.

Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#776

Post by Biganon »

subjectsigma wrote: post #682
Biganon wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your describing both the best aspects of an optimal religion and the most stupid aspects of astrology is extremely dishonest and unworthy of HN And I say that as someone who believes neither in religion nor in astrology

> describing both the best aspects of an optimal religion Nearly every major religion ever was primarily a function of community and culture. Religion mostly just brings people together and makes them talk. What they do afterwards is when things can go really well or really bad. It’s not “dishonest” to describe religion this way, it’s the main point of having a religion By contrast astrology is all about you, your fe…

I'm just someone who cherishes the quality of discussion on HN, something you obviously don't, since you've decided to take my remark personally and answer with a pathetic attempt at a personal attack, another mechanism that's frowned upon here (but very appreciated on reddit, maybe you could try going there instead?)

Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#777

Post by exabrial »

harimau777 wrote: post #575

I have a pet theory that things like astrology, tarot, the I Ching, Myers Briggs, etc. are valuable (and therefore stick around) not because they have a supernatural or scientific ability to make correct predictions, but because they provide a useful framework for discussing topics. So for example, even if tarot doesn't give you supernatural insight, the discussion it generates with the card reader may allow you to r…

Except that's now how people think about it or use it. It needs to be called out for what it is: bullshit and taking advantage of people.

Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#778

Post by Daishiman »

Enginerrrd wrote: post #769

I can't help but feel astonished how salient the classic Carl Sagan quote is here: "I have a foreboding of an America in my children's or grandchildren's time -- when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers are in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can…

It's as fun as always to subscribe to these narratives but I don't buy it.

In the span of time that astrology has taken hold we have seen a dramatic loss in adepts to Christianity as well as its irrational beliefs like creationism.

It's clear that a portion of society has a need for this type of beliefs, and they have merely supplanted Christianity with astrology and woo.

Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#779

Post by goku12 »

zthrowaway wrote: post #657

The result of trying to strip ourselves of tradition no doubt. Astrology is a joke.

While I agree, there are so many other traditions that make much more sense than astrology. Meditation, quiet shrines with incense in groves, yoga, taichi etc. And they are not at odds with scientific temperament.

Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#780

Post by halkony »

nmz wrote: post #757
FishInTheWater wrote: post #614

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're assuming here that there has to be "real" value at the root. This isn't really true. Astrology, Tarot, the I Ching, or any other kind of divination all serve the same purpose: To provide certainty where there is none . To measure the unknowable. People fear the unknown and risk, divination lets them feel like they have some certainty about the future. Myers Briggs, DISC, and all the other "personality tests" a…

> They provide no actual measurement of applicants, Myers-Briggs is especially easy to cheat. Myers briggs aside, I take issue with this specific argument in any context, just because a dishonest party can cheat a test, doesn't mean the test itself is worthless. I can do a math test with a calculator without knowing how to even do math, (oh, put this symbol next to that symbol and hit the = key?) doesn't mean the tes…

I was once skeptical of the usefulness of personality tests, but reading Principles by Ray Dalio convinced me they can be used to build well-oiled organizations.
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