Here's a thought and I am writing this as I don my kevlar flame retardant jacket. For most things in life where we could impact the lives of other people materially - driving is a good example - we ensure some minimal amount of training before letting people perform that activity. However with parenting we have nothing and the result it seems is we pay with a ton more resources downstream in the way of therapy, deten…
Ignoring boys' emotional needs fuels public health risks
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Re: Ignoring boys' emotional needs fuels public health risks
#772It is not a father's job to be the person a child goes to for emotional support. A father is indeed supposed to pass down masculinity and how to manage it and how to become a socially functional and acceptable man. Mothers on the other hand are supposed to be the primary person that provides emotional support and care. But, the immediate community is supposed to provide that support as well. This is how human society…
This take is crazy. I hope you don't have, nor will have kids. Fathers should absolutely be there for emotional support, especially for small kids. Also, distant mothers are not a modern creation, there have always been distant mothers.
A CEO should know about corporate finance but that doesn't mean he should also be the CFO. Both roles are important enough to have separate execs. Parenting is similar. I did not advocate for an emotionally shutoff and cold father, but rather the responsible person and the person the child runs to for emotional support is the feminine parent which is the mother (usually at least). Similarly, boys need to be taught how to be men. Women have their own unique perspective and as such, mothers should take part in this but ultimately, the parent who should be responsible for masculinity education is the masculine parent, who knows how to handle a testestrome filled body and the specific society's expectation of men and how to address or confront that, and the father (usually) is the right person for this due to biology.
You and others are saying both parents can do this. I am saying, the parent with the most experience and qualifications should be the responsible parent without excluding the other parent entirely. You can blame the CEO for being ignorant about the company's financial state but you can't hold him/her responsible for mismanging finances without making sure the CFO did his/her job right.
> Also, distant mothers are not a modern creation, there have always been distant mothers.
100% agree with this. But so are fathers that teach boys weakness, cruelty and cowardice or who themselves don't know how to be a man (like abuse their wives). Parents who suck at their roles exist and that sort of is my point. If a mother is cold and distant then should the father take on the role of an emotional support primary parent as well as masculinity training? What is the mother doing? Neglecting the child? Is that really ok for the father to be expected do both things or maybe should the mother teach the boy to shave and to fight off bullies and succeed in the sport of the boy's choice? No problem with that so long as you are not saying one parent is responsible for everything. That's the root cause, you and others are caught up in politics and appearances and avoid holding both parents responsible. Neither fatherhood nor motherhood is a shared duty, parenthood is. These terms are not some patriarchal social construct that you must rebel against. They simply mean children have specific needs that need to be met and parents need to choose which role to take on and be an expert in that role who will meet that need. If a father doesn't know how to take on the role of emotional support for the child because the mother is distant and cold, then why are you blaming the father for not being two parents when you should be asking what could be done to help both parents figure out a way to share parenthood and decide who will take on what role?
Re: Ignoring boys' emotional needs fuels public health risks
#773Earlier quoted context omitted.
What is a parents' WhatsApp group for?
From things like "my son left his math book in school, can someone send a picture of page 23 so we can prepare for the test" to "my daughter didn't write down the homework assignments; can someone send them" to organizing the class outing, discussing general issues with teachers or the schools organization.
Re: Ignoring boys' emotional needs fuels public health risks
#774Here's a thought and I am writing this as I don my kevlar flame retardant jacket. For most things in life where we could impact the lives of other people materially - driving is a good example - we ensure some minimal amount of training before letting people perform that activity. However with parenting we have nothing and the result it seems is we pay with a ton more resources downstream in the way of therapy, deten…
Re: Ignoring boys' emotional needs fuels public health risks
#775Earlier quoted context omitted.
The concept of the delivery room is a historical aberration. For most of history women would give birth at home accompanied by female friends and family.
And for most of history, maternal mortality was double of what it is today
Re: Ignoring boys' emotional needs fuels public health risks
#776Here's a thought and I am writing this as I don my kevlar flame retardant jacket. For most things in life where we could impact the lives of other people materially - driving is a good example - we ensure some minimal amount of training before letting people perform that activity. However with parenting we have nothing and the result it seems is we pay with a ton more resources downstream in the way of therapy, deten…
The daylight between instituting a parenting license and eugenics is not very much.
Re: Ignoring boys' emotional needs fuels public health risks
#777But while I don't necessarily agree with the messages of all the above, I do think they have done one thing that seemingly everyone else has ignored. They understand that men have feelings, need a purpose, and need to feel useful, and they provide outlets for those feelings in a way society at large is not. The political culture in the United States has become so split that we can't even talk about these issues without someone being labelled an incel, or part of the patriarchy. It's a shame because it's causing a lot of men to feel disenfranchised, which causes them to seek validation from sources that are willing to provide it, which don't always have their best interests in mind.
Re: Ignoring boys' emotional needs fuels public health risks
#778This comment will probably be lost but hey maybe someone will read it: We inherited a world where for many generations, men were hostile to women. It was unfair and needed rectifying. But increasingly, we fixed it by normalizing hostility to men. Overemphasis on "toxic masculinity", hyper focus on promoting outcomes for girls while doing nothing of the sort for boys. Plenty of various "Women in X" supporting each oth…
Re: Ignoring boys' emotional needs fuels public health risks
#779This comment will probably be lost but hey maybe someone will read it: We inherited a world where for many generations, men were hostile to women. It was unfair and needed rectifying. But increasingly, we fixed it by normalizing hostility to men. Overemphasis on "toxic masculinity", hyper focus on promoting outcomes for girls while doing nothing of the sort for boys. Plenty of various "Women in X" supporting each oth…
Re: Ignoring boys' emotional needs fuels public health risks
#780This comment will probably be lost but hey maybe someone will read it: We inherited a world where for many generations, men were hostile to women. It was unfair and needed rectifying. But increasingly, we fixed it by normalizing hostility to men. Overemphasis on "toxic masculinity", hyper focus on promoting outcomes for girls while doing nothing of the sort for boys. Plenty of various "Women in X" supporting each oth…
So at first I liked the pushback against toxic masculinity as I didn’t like jerk men. But then the concept expanded to everything. “Mansplaining” isn’t something unique to men, but it’s ok to point out “mansplaining” but not non-men explaining stuff. “Manspreading” is used quite a bit, but there’s a reason why men sit with their legs open so there’s a polite about of space that’s ok for comfort. Etc etc.
I hope this is overcompensating for a long time of jerks being jerks but I fear that the bullying resulting from “strength = power” and jocks has now changed to “money = power” and people other than jocks have power.
I go to an esports bar quite a bit and an esports team was there. And they were totally bullying people and it was weird because it was multiple genders and races being total jerks to people. But the bully’s were strong, tall, handsome jocks. They were esports-types. So the jerk dynamic was still there.
I don’t think it’s progress if we end up with the same number of “toxic” jerks.