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Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

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Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#771

Post by colanderman »

throwaheyy wrote: post #438
colanderman wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue is, how far to turn it? My Android phone has a similar issue while operating over Bluetooth. While holding "volume up", it takes several seconds for the volume change to register. So I have no feedback for how long I need to hold "volume up". If I wait until the volume is loud enough -- it keeps going up for another two seconds, to the point that it is painful and possibly damaging my hearing.

There’s tactile feedback for that too. You learn how many “clicks” of the knob you need.

Most rotary encoders are programmed to have "acceleration", so it's not quite that simple. And the amount you need to turn it may vary nonlinearly based on the volume and ambient conditions (sound perception is complex!).

Rapid feedback is important.

Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#772

Post by concordDance »

smaudet wrote: post #710
londons_explore wrote: post #677

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The safe thing to do would be to pull over first, as you see the rain getting heavier, then adjust.

I can immediately think of several situations where that is not at all possible to do. Construction, cliff roads, country roads, etc. Tesla are unsafe death traps by design.

> Tesla are unsafe death traps by design.

This is completely untrue by third party metrics (both governmental and not).

Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#773

Post by kaetemi »

the_overseer wrote: post #407
kaetemi wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. It's part of your job to tell managers "yes, it's possible, but it'll negatively affect performance in a significant way because of such and such hardware limitations, so it's not the most valuable feature to implement at this time".

And it's part of the manager's job to tell you "I agree but don't care. Do it anyway or I will find somebody else to do it. For cheaper." Always remember that you are replaceable. When the newborn is crying and wants food you do what you've got to do. And there are many people like that.

Nah, that sounds like bad management. They should be relaying the requirements to the hardware team.

Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#774

Post by naravara »

IceWreck wrote: post #421
jjav wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So what? You've got physical buttons? Big whoop. That physical button that takes 500ms to respond is still as dangerous. No, that's wrong. Problem with touchscreens is that (1) you need to look at them and (2) there is no tactile feedback of whether you pressed it or not and (3) you need to hover your arm in a moving car at just the right spot. Physical buttons cleanly resolve all of these major problems. If the ac…

Why not have haptic feedback like in phones

It's an additional potential point of failure that will be expensive to fix. Phones generally have a usable life of 2 to 5 years before people start hankering to upgrade. Cars ought to last at least 8 to 10, and ideally closer to 20. I know car designers don't actually think this way, but it would be nice if they did put more thought into making sure every part of it is easy to repair or built to last for that whole stretch instead of trying to put new-car buyers on an upgrade treadmill and telling used-car buyers to suck it up and deal.

Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#775

Post by nativeit »

bluGill wrote: post #727
geraldwhen wrote: post #548

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In many states you can absolutely use your phone while driving, either to call someone or actively use gps without a window mount. What’s explicitly prohibited is texting/writing and driving.

In all states where it is allowed you can be sure there is at least one lobby group (probably bicycles) working to make it illegal.

I wish them all the best here in NC, but the auto dealer’s association is easily one of the most influential lobbying groups in the state, which is why Tesla can’t even sell their own cars here.

Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#776

Post by martyvis »

Such a great article. My current car, a 2018 Subaru Outback, has an infotainment touch screen, that I use, but it really isn't that much better than the older button controls on my 2007 Toyota Landcruiser. I'm glad in both cars control of cabin air is reasonably manual - the Subaru made really strange choices though with button positions for fan speed. (I do love the big MAX AC button that in an Aussie summer has the satisfaction of I guess blamming the "Easy" button. I do like having a responsive smart phone for navigation, calls while driving. While I have used Android Auto at times to display on Subaru console screen, it just seems a bit laggy and takes your eyes off the road. I like my phone on a windscreen hard in corner where I finger it while keep my hands on the wheel if I need to.

I really am not looking forward to what the offerings might be available when I likely will change out the current Landcruiser for something to help me tow a caravan for some retirement adventures.

Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#777

Post by ulizzle »

bradgessler wrote: post #413
jjav wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So what? You've got physical buttons? Big whoop. That physical button that takes 500ms to respond is still as dangerous. No, that's wrong. Problem with touchscreens is that (1) you need to look at them and (2) there is no tactile feedback of whether you pressed it or not and (3) you need to hover your arm in a moving car at just the right spot. Physical buttons cleanly resolve all of these major problems. If the ac…

> Physical buttons cleanly resolve all of these major problems > Given that with a physical button you didn't have to take your eyes off the road and given the tactile feedback you know for sure you activated/pressed/moved the control I never understand the "you don't have to look at buttons" argument—my car has lots of physical buttons and to push them, I briefly have to look at the console, find the button, and pre…

Likely a problem with your memory. Why do you always have to look at the console to find where your volume knob is? If you can touch-type on a keyboard, you should be able to remember where the buttons are.

Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#778

Post by whynotkeithberg »

I have a 2015 VW GTI with a touch screen in front... My Border Collie rides shotgun 99% of the time and the touch screen malfunctions like crazy because he constantly sends bits of slobber running down it. I have to hold the button down for 10 seconds to reset it quite often because it will randomly just keep triggering a button press skipping songs, or going into a random menu.

I should have just replaced it with a different deck, but the area it fills with that screen is rather large and it will be hard to find something that looks good in the gap that doesn't also have a screen.

Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#779

Post by martyvis »

acapybara wrote: post #647
jjav wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So what? You've got physical buttons? Big whoop. That physical button that takes 500ms to respond is still as dangerous. No, that's wrong. Problem with touchscreens is that (1) you need to look at them and (2) there is no tactile feedback of whether you pressed it or not and (3) you need to hover your arm in a moving car at just the right spot. Physical buttons cleanly resolve all of these major problems. If the ac…

Our Subaru has a physical volume knob. Its position is only a "gentle suggestion" to the software to move volume up or down. At times, especially when starting the vehicle, there is major latency in the software processing the knob movement.. Also, if the knob is moved too fast, the sw gets the wrong reading. This results in volume being way too high for serveral seconds as well as many other frustrating, dangerous s…

I love the gentle suggestion. I'll use that next time when I try explain to my wife about how it does annoy me as much as it does her. I would have really hoped the engineers that made clearly poor decisions (I cannot believe it is a fundamental system constraint) were brought to reckon on it somehow. Obviously not enough people at Subaru (or their OEM) cared. And you can't even (or I haven't worked out how to ) just have the media start muted every time you start the car. Often for a trip you just want to few moments of quiet contemplation thinking about what you have forgotten to take with you - and not the DJ yelling at you.

I have a 2018 Outback for reference

Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#780

Post by scarface74 »

londons_explore wrote: post #677
nicky0 wrote: post #662

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're in a rainstorm and the wipers are set to "minimum speed" then turning the speed up would be critical.

The safe thing to do would be to pull over first, as you see the rain getting heavier, then adjust.

Yes because pulling over on a multi lane highway in the rain when you have poor visibility and then trying to merge into traffic is much safer.

Besides, what if you are on the road with no shoulders.

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