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Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

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Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#431

Post by lifeisstillgood »

speeder wrote: post #351
ISO-morphism wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe that the engineers are competent at developing software, and think that a lot of the quality issues are due to engineers abdicating authority over the software to managers and never saying "No, adding in that feature at this point in the timeline is going to make this a steaming pile of shit and I refuse to do it and still call myself a software engineer." I get that we have families to feed, but I've seen…

I have a 2 month old baby, and got fired from my last job after 6 months of unpaid overtime... I am currently trying (again) to get into embedded development. I would gladly take the job of the guy that refused to make shitty software, if that means I can keep feeding my baby. Unless it would be too unethical. (I refuse to do work that will kill people, for example I won't work for Palantir, companies that make sketc…

We completely understand - and we would all make the same decision.

Which is why (in the UK) I view the rise of strikes and unions positively - workers need to hang together - set standards that they won't go below, and also ensure the spoils are fairly shared out.

Recently the deputy governor of the bank of england said "inflation has made everyone poorer - get used to it not ask for wage increases". Which tone deafness misses the point that this is not about wanting a 10% pay increase - it's about how is society structured and how do we share the vast wealth.

The question is not how do I get more, it's how do I build a fair system that inwill be part of.

we are playing the sociopaths game as if it's the only game in town. There should be no game we all play where the rules include not feeding babies. That's a bad game

Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#432

Post by emodendroket »

bradgessler wrote: post #413
jjav wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So what? You've got physical buttons? Big whoop. That physical button that takes 500ms to respond is still as dangerous. No, that's wrong. Problem with touchscreens is that (1) you need to look at them and (2) there is no tactile feedback of whether you pressed it or not and (3) you need to hover your arm in a moving car at just the right spot. Physical buttons cleanly resolve all of these major problems. If the ac…

> Physical buttons cleanly resolve all of these major problems > Given that with a physical button you didn't have to take your eyes off the road and given the tactile feedback you know for sure you activated/pressed/moved the control I never understand the "you don't have to look at buttons" argument—my car has lots of physical buttons and to push them, I briefly have to look at the console, find the button, and pre…

> I never understand the "you don't have to look at buttons" argument—my car has lots of physical buttons and to push them, I briefly have to look at the console, find the button, and press it.

Do you look down at the shifter every time you use it? It's the same thing really.

Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#433

Post by ihatepython »

randerson wrote: post #249
sircastor wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> because it was written by under-experienced software "engineers." I used to be an infotainment software engineer for an Auto maker. There’s this idea in the software industry that because the software behaves poorly on your car’s system, it must’ve been written poorly by someone who didn’t know what they were doing. In my experience it was almost always a matter of the hardware being stretched way past its limits.…

Even if the infotainment has been in development for 15 years, all new cars I've played with seem less responsive than a 1st-generation iPhone despite having a UI that is no more capable. Either the engineers aren't making the most of the hardware or the hardware is underpowered by a few decades.

> all new cars I've played with seem less responsive than a 1st-generation iPhone despite having a UI that is no more capable.

The first gen iPhone is highly responsive and has a highly capable UI, more so than even the current gen iPhone.

It's not the engineers, it's you who doesn't have a clue.

Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#434

Post by emodendroket »

onion2k wrote: post #422
bradgessler wrote: post #413

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Physical buttons cleanly resolve all of these major problems > Given that with a physical button you didn't have to take your eyes off the road and given the tactile feedback you know for sure you activated/pressed/moved the control I never understand the "you don't have to look at buttons" argument—my car has lots of physical buttons and to push them, I briefly have to look at the console, find the button, and pre…

my car has lots of physical buttons and to push them, I briefly have to look at the console, find the button, and press it For things that you do regularly the button should be optimized to not be in the middle of a cluster. Ideally it'll be somewhere you can see easily (like on the steering wheel), and most importantly of all it isn't dependent on context. In my car I can easily turn on the aircon, or change the mus…

My car does have a second knob opposite the volume knob that has different functions in different contexts and consequently I pretty much never use it

Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#435

Post by bottlepalm »

tapvt wrote: post #156

I replaced the stereo in my ‘05 Tacoma with a new, touchscreen-with-CarPlay head unit. I hate not having a physical volume knob. I do love the modern features. But hunting for that volume up/down button for a maddening while driving and unsafe.

All new cars have a volume button on the steering wheel, even Tesla.

Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#436

Post by noufalibrahim »

bradgessler wrote: post #413
jjav wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So what? You've got physical buttons? Big whoop. That physical button that takes 500ms to respond is still as dangerous. No, that's wrong. Problem with touchscreens is that (1) you need to look at them and (2) there is no tactile feedback of whether you pressed it or not and (3) you need to hover your arm in a moving car at just the right spot. Physical buttons cleanly resolve all of these major problems. If the ac…

> Physical buttons cleanly resolve all of these major problems > Given that with a physical button you didn't have to take your eyes off the road and given the tactile feedback you know for sure you activated/pressed/moved the control I never understand the "you don't have to look at buttons" argument—my car has lots of physical buttons and to push them, I briefly have to look at the console, find the button, and pre…

I don't think that's the case. e.g. My car's AC controls are physical. I sometimes look at the dials but that's a passing instinct rather than a need. There are three dials and I can feel for the one I want to press with my left hand (our drivers seats are on the right) and then turn it. If I'm adjusting the fan, the sound from the AC gives me sufficient feedback to know if I've set it correctly. This is especially apparent when I'm paying attention to the road more than usual (e.g. while driving through an unfamiliar area).

With the entertainment system, it's a tree of menus on a touchscreen to find what I need to do and then the screen has several buttons neatly arranged which I need to look at (not just feel for) to find what I need. When I tap on something, it's not immediately clear to me without looking and verifying whether the function has been executed or not.

Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#437

Post by emodendroket »

IceWreck wrote: post #421
jjav wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So what? You've got physical buttons? Big whoop. That physical button that takes 500ms to respond is still as dangerous. No, that's wrong. Problem with touchscreens is that (1) you need to look at them and (2) there is no tactile feedback of whether you pressed it or not and (3) you need to hover your arm in a moving car at just the right spot. Physical buttons cleanly resolve all of these major problems. If the ac…

Why not have haptic feedback like in phones

It's only a partial solution. You can feel a button without operating it and you can distinguish it among others by feel.

Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#438

Post by throwaheyy »

colanderman wrote: post #246
hunter2_ wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You turn the physical dial, and regardless of the outcome, you know that your input was received by the HCI, so you don't need to wonder if you should try again. If it worked, great; if not, oh well; no need to look at it and try again though. That's the benefit.

The issue is, how far to turn it? My Android phone has a similar issue while operating over Bluetooth. While holding "volume up", it takes several seconds for the volume change to register. So I have no feedback for how long I need to hold "volume up". If I wait until the volume is loud enough -- it keeps going up for another two seconds, to the point that it is painful and possibly damaging my hearing.

There’s tactile feedback for that too. You learn how many “clicks” of the knob you need.

Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#439

Post by mschuster91 »

the_overseer wrote: post #312
prng2021 wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's great to get your perspective on this. Aside from the GPS/navigation features, aren't car infotainment systems extremely basic? We've been controlling heating, cooling, audio source, and audio volume since the dawn of time. How are technical requirements related to these basic functions changing such that their UIs haven't been absolutely perfected by now? Is the entire infotainment code being rewritten all the…

Yes. The infotainment code is rewritten every time. By different devs. Because that is how automotive industry works. This time BMW wants infotainment and a third party wins the contract (because it's the cheapest usually). For the next BMW car another company wins the contract. Everything is rebuilt from scratch. The components that make up the infotainment a lot of times are actually developed by different companie…

For what it's worth, at least in German auto companies it's becoming the norm to demand source code and build tooling, precisely to avoid lock-in and constant reinventing of the wheel.

Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#440

Post by bottlepalm »

lvturner wrote: post #80
lolinder wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How so? You're the first person I've heard express this view, so I'm genuinely curious.

I'm not sure if it's the touch screen in my car that I love or the rest of the control system. But for me the whole thing is set and forget, if I need to adjust volume it's a scroll wheel on my steering wheel -- air conditioning I never really need to adjust. Sat nav -- yes I need to adjust this occasionally, but it's either voice command or park and change the destination with a keyboard -- but I don't see this bein…

Latest Tesla update lets you configure long press on the steering wheel button to open the glove box.
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