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Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

bbc.com

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Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#771

Post by jeremyfranco »

cwkoss wrote: post #700
mariorossi666 wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

She wasn't technically a whistleblower, technically she stole classified documents and betrayed her country that she swore to protect. The military have a different way of dealing with justice, especially in U.S. She was in fact sentenced by court-martial not by a regular court.

Snowden demonstrated that the "technical whistleblower" channels are ineffective at ending illegal behavior by the govt. The assertion that whistleblowers must use official channels is just a paper-thinly veiled argument for silencing all whistleblowing.

I'm more inclined to think that Snowden and Manning case prove that whistleblowing it's effective only if the receiver is good at protecting the source, which wikileaks, and Assange in particular, is not.

Deep throat identity has been a very well kept secret for over 30 years, Manning and Snowden have been exposed merely weeks after the material was published.

It looks to me that Wikileaks is the real paper-thinly veil.

If I was a conspiracy theorist I would think that wikileaks was created exactly with the purpose of exposing whistleblowers.

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#772

Post by jeremyfranco »

dependenttypes wrote: post #468
mariorossi666 wrote: post #442

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is the first time that I said that... many have done before you, and still doing it. So, please stop. It never happened. > Yes, just because having consensual sex with a 17 and 364 days years old is illegal in some places and the law there calls it rape it does not make it rape in reality Stallman was arguing exactly on the opposite: just because it is of legal age in some country, it doesn't make rape any les…

> Stallman was arguing exactly on the opposite: just because it is of legal age in some country, it doesn't make rape any less rape. Stallman was replying to "Giuffre was 17 at the time; this makes it rape in the Virgin Isiands." with "Does it really? I think it is moraily absurd to define "rape" in a way that depends on minor details such as which country it was in or whether the victim was 18 years old or 17. i thi…

> They use rape as to include breaking a condom

They use any definition their law uses to define rape.

If it is rape for them and you do it in their country, it is rape.

> which is exactly why Stallman and I are against using terms like rape to describe a much less serious

I don't think you and Stallman agreee at all.

Stallman was against using "sexual assault", because it can be conflated with opinions like "assault means using violence" while it's not necessary to be sexual assault.

Stallman was in fact in favour of using "statutory rape" which is not ambiguous.

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#773

Post by jeremyfranco »

FreedomFreedom wrote: post #484
mariorossi666 wrote: post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have proof that every intelligence in the world is working to undermine our freedoms, so it's easy to speculate (with some degree of certainty) that if others have their own agencies you need to have yours, to counter theirs.

What are those "freedoms", where is that proof, and what is the motivation of these "intelligences"? I assume they do it because they hate American freedom.

> are those "freedoms", where is that proof, and what is the motivation of these "intelligences"?

The freedom of the people to chose their own representatives and leaders, something U.S. agency CIA has tempered with many times, especially in South America.

> I assume they do it because they hate American freedom.

Or is the CIA that hates other countries freedom to not agree with them?

Maybe other countries created their agencies to defend them from CIA.

There are always two sides in a story.

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#774

Post by EthanHeilman »

qubex wrote: post #151
EthanHeilman wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not weighing in on this particular example because I haven't looked at in sufficient depth. However I want to strongly push back on the argument that: something can't be torture or abuse because the person is physically able to leave. The absence of a locked door does not capture the full scope of coercion and psychological in many situations. This sort of excuse is often used by cults and domestic abusers to jus…

I concur with you on this. The availability of a theoretical ‘ out ’ does not automatically mean that the victim is consenting to the ongoing mistreatment. Often it is intrinsic that taking that ‘out’ has perceived costs that make it less preferable than enduring the experience the victim is being subjected to. This is in and of itself a source of great angst for the victim.

Given the sunk cost fallacy, the magnitude of increasing suffering someone might put up with is unbounded.

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#775

Post by DiogenesKynikos »

nemo wrote: post #676
DiogenesKynikos wrote: post #672

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The moment Assange was dragged out of the embassy, there was an extradition request from the United States. Assange was clearly correct about what would happen, and all the people who laughed off the threat of extradition to the US look pretty silly now.

The only indictment that there is evidence for is from 2017 under the Trump DoJ, 5 years after he fled justice to the embassy. Assange made up a story about a fictional sealed indictment when he fled justice. He just did such a poor job fleeing justice that he wound up with a sealed indictment for criminal behavior he engaged in after he'd moved into the embassy.

A grand jury was convened at the latest in 2011,[1] before Assange sought asylum in the Ecuadorian embassy.

1. https://www.theguardian.com/media/2011/may/11/us-opens-wikil...

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#776

Post by jki275 »

romwell wrote: post #770
jki275 wrote: post #765

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People from actual developing countries leave all the time. They put in the effort to learn the language, they do what they have to do. They don't have any significant amount of possessions -- that's one of the hallmarks of a real developing country. You're speaking from a position of such great privilege that you don't even have a frame of reference to accurately talk about a developing country. They're leaving beca…

Dude. I come from Ukraine, it is literally a developing country[1][2], look up the meaning of the word. It does not mean "shithole". The list includes Turkey and Brazil, for that matter. And sure, the conditions you describe are unimaginable there. But there's more to the world than the Glorious USA and subsistence farming at $5/month. You are setting the bar waaaaaay too low. There are many shades out there. There a…

Ukraine is not a developing country. Ukraine is a highly privileged country in comparison to the real developing world.

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#777

Post by criley2 »

iamnothere wrote: post #127
criley2 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>He chose conditions that were arguably worse in most respects but one (access to communication/internet) than a Swedish prison. Are Nordic prisoners allowed to walk out the front door wheneever they choose? Last time I checked, prison required removing freedom. You have to 'escape' prison, not walk out the front door. Just saying, this bad rationalization only works on people biased towards Julian and looking to exc…

> Here's the killer point: if Nordic prisons are better, why didn't Julian stay there instead? Because he was worried about the US finding some flimsy justification to extradite him (an Australian citizen) and prosecute him locally. Fears which, apparently, were justified.

Flimsy justification? He played spy games laundering intelligence from the Russian military to successfully attack US Elections.

Julian Assange literally attacked American soverignity and arguably was a key factor in delivering the American Presidency to Russia.

At this point, I hope he get's Epstein'd.

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#778

Post by romwell »

jki275 wrote: post #776
romwell wrote: post #770

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dude. I come from Ukraine, it is literally a developing country[1][2], look up the meaning of the word. It does not mean "shithole". The list includes Turkey and Brazil, for that matter. And sure, the conditions you describe are unimaginable there. But there's more to the world than the Glorious USA and subsistence farming at $5/month. You are setting the bar waaaaaay too low. There are many shades out there. There a…

Ukraine is not a developing country. Ukraine is a highly privileged country in comparison to the real developing world.

You keep using that word. I don't think it means what you think it means[1]. Maybe that's why a lot of people are confused about what you are trying to say.

Perhaps you mean "least developed countries"[2]? That's beside the point, however.

The point is, making up definitions and using the equivalent of "love it or leave it" when it comes to talking about the US won't get you far in terms of getting any point across.

[1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Developing_country

[1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Least_Developed_Countries

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#779

Post by pnw_hazor »

IIAOPSW wrote: post #682
pnw_hazor wrote: post #590

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The bar against ex post facto application of law in the US is limited to criminal laws. Civil laws, such as, immigration laws, are not so limited. That's why I encourage permanent resident immigrants (green card holders) to complete the naturalization process ASAP. (Assuming they want to retain the right to stay in the US.)

Where does this come from? Article I section 9 doesn't say anything about the scope being limited to criminal law.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution-conan/article-1/sec...

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#780

Post by jki275 »

romwell wrote: post #778
jki275 wrote: post #776

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ukraine is not a developing country. Ukraine is a highly privileged country in comparison to the real developing world.

You keep using that word. I don't think it means what you think it means[1]. Maybe that's why a lot of people are confused about what you are trying to say. Perhaps you mean "least developed countries"[2]? That's beside the point, however. The point is, making up definitions and using the equivalent of "love it or leave it" when it comes to talking about the US won't get you far in terms of getting any point across.…

I do not care one whit what Wikipedia has to say about anything. It's not a useful source of information.

And I didn't say "love it or leave it", I asked a question. People who hate where they are, complain about it incessantly, compare it to things they've never experienced in order to denigrate it absurdly, cons the fuck out of me with why they stay.

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