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Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

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Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#761

Post by dingoegret »

samdfonseca wrote: post #467
dingoegret wrote: post #404

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know why you don't think a trial doesn't carry seriously negative and scary connotations, but it does and no rational person just subjects themselves to persecution.

I agree that standing trial for rape must be terrifying, but that doesn't mean he's being persecuted. We've agreed upon a system of justice that best protects the rights of both the accuser and the accused, and he decided to deny the alleged victim their day in court. He was free to leave the embassy, he was free to defend himself from humiliation, but he chose not to.

[dead]

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#762

Post by monkeycantype »

pnako wrote: post #697
monkeycantype wrote: post #648

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've had US police pull guns on me several times, thrown to the ground have been arrested and jailed overnight, despite not having committed a crime on any of the occasions. My transgression in each case was to have not learnt the submission rituals that American police expect, the whole stay in your car with you hands on the wheel, the yes sir, yes mam. One of these times was on a late night Santa Cruz to SF drive,…

>My transgression in each case was to have not learnt the submission rituals that American police expect Either you are a slow learner, or you make a point to be a smartass with cops. Do you think it's specific to American cops? Maybe try that with Algerian or Brazilian cops and see how things turn out for you.

You use the phrase, “smart arse with cops” My take is that not having been raised in the US, I treated them respectfully, but without subservience, and expected mutual respect. In Eastern Europe I’m fine, I accept that i’ve chosen to travel through a broken kleptocracy, and that the cops are gangsters. I’m not willing to accept the same in a democracy, I don’t pretend that any democracy meets the standards we would like them to, but I remain committed to holding ground on the advances we have made and hoping for more with each generation

This feels like conversation that could get personal and nasty quick. I don’t want that to happen, I get your point, if a problem is avoidable and you don’t avoid it, you’ve got to question why.

And do I really fail to submit out of democratic integrity or am I just stubborn? Honestly I don’t know.

Also I want to tell you about my friend, who when instructed to address Detroit police as ‘sir’ replied ‘I struggle to believe her majesty has granted you a knighthood’

He’s stubborn - he’s also ridiculously smart and charismatic, enough to talk his way out of a beatdown most of the time

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#763

Post by BookmarkSaver »

paulddraper wrote: post #724
BookmarkSaver wrote: post #620

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Chelsea Manning was the anonymous whistleblower Manning was a spiteful security leak, not a whistleblower.

What is the difference between those two? Whistleblowers are happy?

Whistleblowers are intentionally exposing a wrong.

Manning was copying any and all classified content and exposing it indiscriminately.

Like, maybe it was important that certain things were exposed, but it wasn't a whistleblower act, it was a spiteful soldier acting out.

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#764

Post by seppin »

jacquesm wrote: post #643
seppin wrote: post #632

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you honestly basing your opinion of a country on an airport?

Airports and customs are the face of a nation to most of the travelers that visit, the first point of contact and as such they leave a lasting impression. Think of them as ambassadors. If that first experience is a bad one that will reflect on what people think about the rest of the country.

> If that first experience is a bad one that will reflect on what people think about the rest of the country.

So yes, you do think an airport is at least a good starting point for forming an opinion about a country.

Seriously that is crazy. Like the port authority is a good example of New York City. I don't even know how to respond to that.

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#765

Post by jki275 »

romwell wrote: post #708
jki275 wrote: post #474

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seriously, if you all believe everywhere else in the world is so much better, why stay? For context, I'm married to a person from a real developing country, as it's actually defined. I'm sending multiple family members to school there so they can get out. Every single person in her family has done everything they can to get out. Every single person I know there has done everything they can to get out. Every single pe…

>Seriously, if you all believe everywhere else in the world is so much better, why stay? Right, because should an American decide that they like country X more, they can just move to country X, which is waiting for them with open arms. Like, anyone could be Swedish, right? Immigration is an easy-peasy thing; who can possibly find it difficult to get a job overseas, learn a language, leave family and friends behind, g…

People from actual developing countries leave all the time. They put in the effort to learn the language, they do what they have to do. They don't have any significant amount of possessions -- that's one of the hallmarks of a real developing country.

You're speaking from a position of such great privilege that you don't even have a frame of reference to accurately talk about a developing country. They're leaving because they would rather make 500 dollars a month working 20 hours a day at three jobs in Dubai than make 2-5 dollars a month working 20 hours a day at subsistence farming or worse, and they're often doing it so they can support those back home who don't have the skills to find sponsorship to work abroad.

They learn a skill that will let them leave, or they find an agency that is hiring people to work abroad. I know plenty of people who have left their country to find jobs elsewhere -- many of them in the US, many in Japan. Any good nurse from southeast Asia who wants a job can usually get sponsored to come to the US -- there are other professions as well, some in the US and some elsewhere.

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#766

Post by jki275 »

dv_dt wrote: post #606
jki275 wrote: post #474

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seriously, if you all believe everywhere else in the world is so much better, why stay? For context, I'm married to a person from a real developing country, as it's actually defined. I'm sending multiple family members to school there so they can get out. Every single person in her family has done everything they can to get out. Every single person I know there has done everything they can to get out. Every single pe…

Because whatever other faults the US has, there is still a high degree of free speech protection here. And any citizen of America is still free to promote their thoughts of what would make our nation a better union. If they desire, through criticism of what makes us an imperfect union. Some people might even consider that act patriotic or a duty of a citizen to do so.

And you've hit on it.

The US respects the rights people have, and the US gives tremendous opportunity. Is it perfect? Of course not. Are there issues that need to be addressed? Of course there are.

But to compare the US to a developing country is simply profoundly ignorant and a display of such privilege that it shows one simply can't even fathom what a developing country actually is.

I've been there. I've been all over the US, I've volunteered in homeless shelters in the US, I've travelled extensively in southeast Asia. The homeless in the US would be considered extravagantly wealthy in many places in southeast Asia. Southwest Asia too, I've been deployed there more than once.

The US is not a developing country or anything near it. We're the premiere first world country, and we provide opportunity beyond the wildest dreams many people worldwide can ever imagine. That's why the people in real developing countries generally want to come here.

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#767

Post by jki275 »

papito wrote: post #574
stjohnswarts wrote: post #563

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's hyperbole though. they're just showing that they are trumpers until something ridiculous like that happens. I'm sure there are some zealots but 99% of them would not be cool with him murdering someone in cold blood.

They actually brought that hyperbole up to one of the supporters and they asked "well, so what did that person do that he would shoot them?"

In the absurd hypothetical that the President decided to shoot someone, that's a relatively reasonable question one might ask...

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#768

Post by jacquesm »

seppin wrote: post #764
jacquesm wrote: post #643

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Airports and customs are the face of a nation to most of the travelers that visit, the first point of contact and as such they leave a lasting impression. Think of them as ambassadors. If that first experience is a bad one that will reflect on what people think about the rest of the country.

> If that first experience is a bad one that will reflect on what people think about the rest of the country. So yes, you do think an airport is at least a good starting point for forming an opinion about a country. Seriously that is crazy. Like the port authority is a good example of New York City. I don't even know how to respond to that.

> Seriously that is crazy.

No, you think that is crazy. That's your opinion, not a fact.

> Like the port authority is a good example of New York City.

I think you are missing the point.

> I don't even know how to respond to that.

Then don't.

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#769

Post by tremon »

shadowgovt wrote: post #491
tremon wrote: post #482

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you asserting that Osama bin Laden wasn't a visible target?

I should probably clarify: assassination of high-visibility undisclosed targets. Osama bin Laden was tagged as an enemy combatant quite publicly, and I'm not aware of anyone disagreeing with the US's tactical call to kill him during Operation Neptune Spear rather than take him alive. Some Congresspeople have made ill-advised claims around Assange, but to my knowledge he is not tagged as an enemy combatant in a war on…

there would be quite a lot of surprise if the US sent in a SEAL team to shoot him.

Of course there would be a lot of surprise, that would be an open act of war. The US's preferred method would be a drone strike operated from within the US borders, just as Russia's preferred method is with some radioactive poison.

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#770

Post by romwell »

jki275 wrote: post #765
romwell wrote: post #708

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Seriously, if you all believe everywhere else in the world is so much better, why stay? Right, because should an American decide that they like country X more, they can just move to country X, which is waiting for them with open arms. Like, anyone could be Swedish, right? Immigration is an easy-peasy thing; who can possibly find it difficult to get a job overseas, learn a language, leave family and friends behind, g…

People from actual developing countries leave all the time. They put in the effort to learn the language, they do what they have to do. They don't have any significant amount of possessions -- that's one of the hallmarks of a real developing country. You're speaking from a position of such great privilege that you don't even have a frame of reference to accurately talk about a developing country. They're leaving beca…

Dude. I come from Ukraine, it is literally a developing country[1][2], look up the meaning of the word. It does not mean "shithole". The list includes Turkey and Brazil, for that matter.

And sure, the conditions you describe are unimaginable there. But there's more to the world than the Glorious USA and subsistence farming at $5/month.

You are setting the bar waaaaaay too low. There are many shades out there. There are plenty of countries where the opportunities are much more scarce than in the US, but which nevertheless got a lot of things right that the US got wrong.

And you can make your own "real developing country" definition, just don't expect others to know it. Probably for the best to just name the country you have in mind.

[1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Developing_country#Developing_...

[2]http://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/developing-countr...

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