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LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting call to Wichita police

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Re: LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting call to Wichita police

#771

Post by justtopostthis3 »

scoot wrote: post #639
nwjtkjn wrote: post #502

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That video is sickening. That man was murdered.

Technically not murder, as that requires premeditation. However it is apparent that this is a no-win situation for the victim, the officer is clearly intent on creating a situation for a "justifiable" homicide. What's just as horrifying is that the jury acquitted.

I have seen use-of-force training exercises that look very similar except there is actually a weapon being drawn. I don't think it makes the officer who pulled the trigger innocent, but I believe he behaved exactly the way he was trained, and holding him personally responsible would not prevent this kind of thing from happening again.

Note in particular it is a different officer who is talking in the video and created the whole situation.

Re: LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting call to Wichita police

#772

Post by astronautjones »

sedro wrote: post #515
bob_theslob646 wrote: post #257

People do realize that it was a random address, not any of the call of duty players addresses'. A random person was killed over this stupidity. This is so enraging it's not even funny.

To clarify, the arrested individual sells a swatting "service" [1]. One of the CoD players hired him to swat the other over a twitter argument. The other CoD player taunted the swatter and gave him a random address [2]. The police showed up at the address and killed an unrelated person. No parties involved are without blame. [1] http://archive.is/Ixezf#selection-6279.0-6288.0 [2] https://i.imgur.com/n3Q53nL.png

for $10 and $20!

Re: LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting call to Wichita police

#773

Post by rrauenza »

This guy is part of the culture / training problem:

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/02/us/training-officers-to-s...

When police officers shoot people under questionable circumstances, Dr. Lewinski is often there to defend their actions. Among the most influential voices on the subject, he has testified in or consulted in nearly 200 cases over the last decade or so and has helped justify countless shootings around the country.

His conclusions are consistent: The officer acted appropriately, even when shooting an unarmed person. Even when shooting someone in the back. Even when witness testimony, forensic evidence or video footage contradicts the officer’s story.

Re: LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting call to Wichita police

#774

Post by computerex »

jack9 wrote: post #630
computerex wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea this answer is total and utter crap. We aren't asking law enforcement to be super human, we want them to be educated and competent. The fact that the U.S is both lacking in training and competence is a well established fact. Law enforcement in the United States has proven itself to lack training and discipline by firing on innocent unarmed citizens many many times. I don't believe any other country in the world h…

> Yea this answer is total and utter crap. We aren't asking law enforcement to be super human, we want them to be educated and competent. That wasn't an answer and it is well reasoned. Saying "nuh uh" as a red herring to put forth what excuses you believe, frankly, is not compelling.

I am not sure what point you are trying to make, but what you quoted wasn't my answer in its entirety. The parent made the assertion that we are asking police officers to be super human and I was disagreeing with that and the rest of the answer goes on to explain why.

Re: LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting call to Wichita police

#775

Post by conanbatt »

gutnor wrote: post #731
conanbatt wrote: post #697

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are reading too deep into it. The situation is that the cops have too little downside and too high an upside: since they never get convicted for these crimes, you need little to nothing to convince you that deadly force is fine. Cops need to go to jail for this. Its as simple as that. And they will find the way to not shoot like that anymore.

> you need little to nothing to convince you that deadly force is fine. I'm disturbed by that line of thought. A normally educated human being from a developed country should feel bad about using deadly force, and worse after using it. The whole point of military training is to break the human instinct no to kill and even with the pressure of actual combat situation (where the upside is much higher, the downside much…

Im sure there is grief afterwards, but there is also grief and pain from over eating and overdrinking: some consequences are very hard to measure at the point of decision. Specially when its related to your own survival.

The ghost of a 1% danger vs a 0% consequence makes it a pretty rational decision. Bear in mind that criminals, even those with hostages, dont make the decision to shoot so fast: they know that if you shoot the hostage you die or get captured immediately. So the criminals do respond to the punishment. Why wouldnt cops?

Re: LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting call to Wichita police

#776

Post by brucephillips »

mannykannot wrote: post #736
brucephillips wrote: post #662

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My point is that any living human in your presence can be interpreted as a 'threat to your life ' Not reasonably, no, which is why all people, including cops, must continue to be allowed to defend their own lives when their is a reasonable threat . Can you really not imagine a situation where a cop would reasonably fear for their life? Really?

> Can you really not imagine a situation where a cop would reasonably fear for their life? Really? This is just a blatant straw-man argument. The real issue is whether unreasonable claims that an officer acted out of a fear for his life should effectively be 'get out of jail' cards.

> This is just a blatant straw-man argument

No, it's not. OP said "Precisely why the "feared for my life" defense of police execution has to be ended".

It's difficult to have a reasoned discussion when you don't read.

Re: LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting call to Wichita police

#777

Post by brucephillips »

aswanson wrote: post #667
brucephillips wrote: post #662

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My point is that any living human in your presence can be interpreted as a 'threat to your life ' Not reasonably, no, which is why all people, including cops, must continue to be allowed to defend their own lives when their is a reasonable threat . Can you really not imagine a situation where a cop would reasonably fear for their life? Really?

Of course I can imagine one. The point is, the law is written such that any statement by the cop stating fear has to be interpreted as truth. Hence non convictions on a body armored cop, with 4 backing officers shooting 5 ak rounds in a prone crying man's unarmed back after a stupid game of Simon says.

This is what you said "Precisely why the "feared for my life" defense of police execution has to be ended."

Which is a clear argument for removing officers right to defend themselves when they fear for their life, reasonably or unreasonably. You're moving the goal posts.

Re: LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting call to Wichita police

#778

Post by brucephillips »

vehementi wrote: post #690
brucephillips wrote: post #656

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My point is that if you did have a way of killing a commuter to save your own live, you would be justified in doing so, just as a cop is. The fact that you don't is a consequence of how driving works, not of power that society is stripping you of. You do have this right on the street, for instance. Just as a cop does.

So wait, if I legally have a gun in my car it'd be fine to start shooting at that erratic driver?

If that was the only way to save your life in that circumstance, which when driving it almost never is, then of course. What about self defense laws do you not understand?

Re: LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting call to Wichita police

#779

Post by dang »

motherdearest wrote: post #618
sctb wrote: post #552

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since we just told you we'd ban the account if you kept breaking the guidelines with unsubstantive comments, we've banned the account. We're happy to unban accounts if you email us at hn@ycombinator.com and we believe you'll start posting civilly and substantively. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

You banned the guy over the wang comment? How is that any less constructive than the other 50 posts here?

We banned him because of a long history of abusing the site and ignoring our requests to stop. That's the main way to get banned on HN.

Re: LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting call to Wichita police

#780

Post by drawkbox »

danso wrote: post #378
dingbat wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

and being woken in the middle of the night, wearing boxers or pajamas with hands in the air, better pray that they don't happen to slip down causing you to instinctively "reach for your waistband" in order to hitch them up

This seems to me to be what happened in the Daniel Shaver case, who was drunk and in his pajamas when police (responding to a report of a brandished gun being spotted in his motel room window) confronted him. He was facedown and yelled at for ~4 minutes before being shot when officers mistook him pulling up his waistband for reaching for a weapon: https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/12/09/us/police-shooting-vid... The of…

One thing that gets overlooked in police shootings is innocent bystanders as an aside to the people getting shot by police, justified or not.

Imagine the person that called the police to investigate someone with a possible weapon in a hotel, moments later police show up in SWAT gear with AR-15s and discharge them in the hallway, with many other rooms around, and kill an innocent man. Worse, bullets could have gone into rooms or out the window into the parking lot and who knows where else. Why not rubber bullets, why not a taser, why an AR-15 in a hotel hallway?

Next time you see one of these shootings, watch the disregard in some for who is behind the person the police are shooting at [1][2][3] whether justified or not, it is a bit scary. It is getting to the point that maybe it is safer to not call police, what if you were robbed and they come in and shoot the guy in front or you house, bullets everywhere?

[1] http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/25/justice/south-carolina-trooper...

[2] https://nypost.com/video/cop-fatally-shoots-suicidal-man/

[3] http://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2017/12/10/daniel-shaver-philip...

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