Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

techcrunch.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

761–770 of 1001 posts

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#761

Post by erikpukinskis »

gametheoretic wrote: post #189
patrickg_zill wrote: post #27

Some geeky types will be tempted, upon founding a startup, to thus not have ANY women in significant roles in the company, and to keep it as guys-only as possible; outsourcing as needed and doing the other legal legwork as required to stay under the headcount (is it >50 people?) to avoid the EEOC.

I'll be more than tempted. To be 100% honest, I have that thought every single time I read any article or blog post about sexism in tech. If programmers with a Y-chromosome are exponentially less likely to either sue us or get us labelled sexist jerks in the press, then that's who we're hiring.

That you would even think this says to me that you have zero appreciation for the unique capabilities women bring to the workforce. In my mind it's so obviously worth the risk.

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#762

Post by jusben1369 »

Nursie wrote: post #725
jusben1369 wrote: post #639

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not "sick". It's that it's rife with problems. I don't think companies should ban dating but I think it's very wise for them to be wary of it happening and educate their employees, before they start, to imagine what happens if that person becomes their boss or subordinate or breaks up with them and they have to see them everyday at work and work together. And/or starts dating someone else. Or is their superior a…

15 upvotes disagree with you. It's a denial of life and humanity in the pure interest of the business. It's sick.

Too funny. 15 upvotes carries the day then. It is sick.

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#764

Post by rrouse »

glibgil wrote: post #624
buro9 wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nebulous semi-employee with unspecified responsibilities related to a founder? This is the point that stands out for me. That the wife is not an employee of Github but claims to be able to access private company chat records, and also is able to "work" from within the office and interact with the staff. Even with allowances that company property remains company property and private chat rooms are in fact non-privat…

I love github, but toxic cultures can happen anywhere. Github employees have been involved in commit abuse since the beginning https://web.archive.org/web/20130117043748/http://sheddingbi...

I think it was just a user of Github and not an employee that did that nonsense

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#765

Post by rrouse »

Bahamut wrote: post #735
glibgil wrote: post #624

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love github, but toxic cultures can happen anywhere. Github employees have been involved in commit abuse since the beginning https://web.archive.org/web/20130117043748/http://sheddingbi...

Wow...I hope that toxic github employee was fired for that.

I believe it was just a user of Github and not an employee that did that nonsense.

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#766

Post by grifpete »

harshreality wrote: post #190

The article quotes JAH's email as saying, "Two women, one of whom I work with and adore, and a friend of hers were hula hooping to some music. I didn’t have a problem with this. What I did have a problem with is the line of men sitting on one bench facing the hoopers and gawking at them. It looked like something out of a strip club. When I brought this up to male coworkers, they didn’t see a problem with it. But for…

My observation is that it is very easy to misunderstand stories like the hoola hoop example. Imagine 2 scenarios: a) a company where we stipulate that there is no sexism and women feel respected and valued b) a company where to stipulate that there is widespread sexism and women detect a myriad of signs of it every day.

In scenario a) the hoola hoop incident is highly unlikely to spark a reaction from a woman but in scenario b) this may be offensive to her.

The problem for the woman in b) is that it isn't really the hoola hoop 'leering'that offends her so much as it is the culmination of a series of attitudes and slights. But of course, if she complains about the hoola hoop behavior she can easily look petty. Each such incident can seem trivial but the pattern isn't. It is a real dilemma for women how to handle this kind of atmosphere gracefully and it is probably impossible for them to do so without some men tarring them as being nutty oversensitive rad fems.

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#767

Post by kfcm »

whiddershins wrote: post #731
sgentle wrote: post #235

Ouch. What a terrible situation. I'm holding out for the other side of the story, but unless you're willing to assume the entire thing is invented this is a major fuckup for GitHub. I think this is a classic problem with companies making the transition from small startup to regular business. Break down the barriers! Flat management! Kill bureaucracy and embrace no-politics DIY organisation! The article reads like an…

I think, realistically, a spouse of a founder might be very involved in a company and decision making. Depending on the exact nature of the relationship, this is probably inevitable, very common, and not necessarily undesirable. There is a reason we give the president's wife a special title even though technically no one voted for her, many married couples are a team in the professional arena as well.

Depending upon corporate structure and legal jurisdiction, certain funding streams (loans, lines of credit, guarantees) WILL require both the founder and their spouse to sign on the dotted line. This places the spouse on the financial hook as much as the founder, preventing the squirreling away of assets out of reach of creditors. It also makes the spouse a "silent" investor in the company.

I have only seen this a couple times. In both cases, the corporate structures were LLCs, and the amounts were over a million.

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#768

Post by grifpete »

foz wrote: post #399
harshreality wrote: post #190

The article quotes JAH's email as saying, "Two women, one of whom I work with and adore, and a friend of hers were hula hooping to some music. I didn’t have a problem with this. What I did have a problem with is the line of men sitting on one bench facing the hoopers and gawking at them. It looked like something out of a strip club. When I brought this up to male coworkers, they didn’t see a problem with it. But for…

The hula hooping event simply took on a symbolic meaning for her, give what she went through. I don't think the act itself was dangerous or so terrible, but through her eyes, at that moment, it was the last straw.

Exactly right.

(see my comment on this very point)

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#769

Post by erikpukinskis »

xacaxulu wrote: post #551

It's a shame that crying sexism is beginning to take on the trappings of Salem Witch Trials. Simply implying that what happened was the result of sexism seems to be enough proof that sexism was the cause. This is a nuanced case that probably has much more to do with managerial mistakes. The sexism angle in this story seems very forced and sort of used as a last minute boost to an otherwise boring story of bad managem…

How is the current situation like the Salem Witch Trials?

My memory is that in that situation people were burned at the stake for allegedly doing things that are actually physically impossible to do. Like casting spells on children.

In this case, an employee has accused other employees of several fireable, if not illegal, actions. No one has been burned, or is in danger of being burned. Possibly some people will be fired, but no one has even been named yet, and ostensibly it will be left up to Github itself, and the courts.

What am I missing?

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#770

Post by tw268 »

moron4hire wrote: post #557
ZoF wrote: post #517

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This post really bothers me somehow. Edit: Figured out why. I don't understand why saying, "people will call me sexist for this" immediately validates your statement as "not intended to be sexist". >"If you are male and a founder, one of your most valuable business resources is your wife. People will call me sexist for saying this, I expect, but women think socially with a level of complexity that I think most men ne…

I agree with you completely. It belies an inappropriate attitude for the 21st century.

There are plenty of scientifically well-documented cognitive differences between men and women, though the OP doesn't sound informed on them, and yes it is considered impolite to know about them if you're not working in a psychological research lab.
Post reply on HN