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Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

lesnumeriques.com

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Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#761

Post by mcv »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #759
SideburnsOfDoom wrote: post #752

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is the point, they have different use-cases. Contactless requires the acceptor to have a specific piece of hardware that comes with a contract. The QR code is an image, that AFIAK contains instructions on a specific transfer (target account number, amount, reference etc) in a machine-readable format, that the sender can chose to scan and accept or not. Neither is "better", they have different uses.

You don't need a QR code "across the internet". A QR code is for in-person payments. That may be convenient for private individual to private individual (which is a niche market) but for stores or things like transport contactless, which we already all have, is clearly superior UX and there is neither a demand nor a point in having QR codes instead. My take-away from this tedious thread is that Wero does not currentl…

Wero doesn't support contactless because it's a different use case. Contactless is only for in-person payments. Wero is for internet payments. QR codes can be used for either, but I mostly see them in internet payments. When I buy something on Steam, I can get a QR code for my iDeal payment through my phone app. I'd expect Wero to support that too. And that means you can use it for in-person payment if the seller has or can produce a QR code, but that's not the primary use case for Wero, because we already have contactless.

Although contactless through banking app go through Google Wallet these days, which I hate, so I would prefer if there was a European alternative for that. Could be part of Wero, but it doesn't have to be. As long as it's not part of Google.

Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#762

Post by Markoff »

culhatsker wrote: post #251
sgjohnson wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> > A Frenchman using Wero will be able to transfer money to a Spanish friend on Bizum, with the same simplicity as a domestic payment. SEPA Instant Payments also solves that.

Yes, the only difference is that you need to communicate your bank account number and likely your legal name.

not the case in Czechia, only thing you need is bank account number and bank code, nothing else

Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#763

Post by BadBadJellyBean »

piva00 wrote: post #633
BadBadJellyBean wrote: post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it is. If you want people to move, you need to give them something. And SEPA but with phone numbers isn't it. At least not for me. Especially if it means that I am dependent on whether my bank implemented it. I have recently seen people surprised when they sent a Wero transaction and the other party could see their IBAN.

You still didn't clarify: what PayPal features make you think that way? I don't personally know anyone who uses PayPal, the only times I used it was for transferring money using F&F to purchase 2nd hand music gear.

I think it's maybe a regional thing. Most people in Germany seem to have PayPal and a lot of them are aware of their buyer protections. I had to use them myself once.

PayPal seems to be a default for online purchases and transactions between people.

Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#764

Post by econ »

l23k4 wrote: post #756
econ wrote: post #659

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like big tech they may refuse service when they like to (which is crazy)

Why is it crazy? EU has the "basic payment account" scheme which makes sure that ultimately nobody is left without a bank account.

Yeah, so they say.

The eu it self has a faceless committee that debanks people without a day in court or any oversight.

The us also freely debanks people (and their family!) in the eu without any kind of legal process.

https://www.lemonde.fr/en/opinion/article/2025/07/26/europea...

Banks are said to be required to state a reason for refusing or freezing an account but at the same time they may not disclose reporting you.

So they are pretty much free to not respond.

https://www.eccnet.eu/news/ecc-net-calls-stronger-enforcemen...

Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#765

Post by anygivnthursday »

tpm wrote: post #750
ffritz wrote: post #575

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The payer couldn't care less about how much the store pays for the transaction. He or she just wants to tap with their phone, and the default here are Visa/MC cards. In addition to the transaction price not being an argument for the payer, Wero also afaik does not have as much consumer protection as (certainly some) credit cards offer. I also bet the average person doesn't understand or care about the whole political…

In addition, this only starts in 13 countries. There are 27 EU members. So there is a lot of big ambitions but not followed by actions. Which is what we are sadly used to. So when I from Slovakia want to buy something in a French eshop, I'm out of luck. And when on a vacation, can't use this system either, while a French person on a vacation in Slovakia can't use it either. My guess is people will mostly continue to…

Doesn't Slovakia already have its own instant QR payment system?

Edit: oh, sorry, just realized you talking about international not domestic payments

Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#766

Post by tpm »

anygivnthursday wrote: post #765
tpm wrote: post #750

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In addition, this only starts in 13 countries. There are 27 EU members. So there is a lot of big ambitions but not followed by actions. Which is what we are sadly used to. So when I from Slovakia want to buy something in a French eshop, I'm out of luck. And when on a vacation, can't use this system either, while a French person on a vacation in Slovakia can't use it either. My guess is people will mostly continue to…

Doesn't Slovakia already have its own instant QR payment system? Edit: oh, sorry, just realized you talking about international not domestic payments

The whole SEPA area has instant SEPA payments. You can stick that into QRs or whatever. Some merchants take payments by SEPA, instant or not, but we need something else if we want to replace both online and in-person card payments throughout the whole EU, and at this point I doubt the Wero will be the replacement.

Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#767

Post by ethbr1 »

michaelt wrote: post #694
dgoldstein0 wrote: post #565

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not intending to defend either system but private financial institutions basically end up deputized as enforcement arms of anti money laundering and sanctions in the US and probably other countries where the payments systems are privatized. That's a why every bank has a big compliance department - the laws say a lot about who and what they can serve and they have to be on top of it. Which yes means sometimes legit tr…

You're right that politicians can pressure private financial institutions into cutting off anyone they don't like. For example Operation Choke Point [1] which cut off legal-but-scandalous businesses' access to the financial system, and getting WikiLeaks debanked for publishing material that made the government look bad. But some might see that as a sign you need more separation between the state and payment networks,…

I think the ideal would be private banks enforcing exact legal rules (no fuzzy matches) and forwarding edge cases to the authorities (but not blocking them). All with transparency.

You don't want private banks in the business of fuzzy-matching (because they'll default to over-cautious, and it empowers the government to exploit grey areas to pressure them).

And you don't want the executive arm of the government too involved in day-to-day financial inspection (because executive can move at the speed of an edict, versus needing a law).

Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#768

Post by philipallstar »

Fnoord wrote: post #470
Lionga wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Considering the head of EZB is a convicted criminal with, lets call it interesting, letters to the convicted criminal Sarkozy I am not sure what is plague and what cholera.

Lets see. Gerhard Schroeder, fled to RU. Nicolas Sarkozy, convicted. Silvio Berlusconi, convicted. Geert Wilders, convicted. Slobodan Milošević, convicted. Jean-Marie Le Pen, convicted. Marine Le Pen, convicted. Donald Trump, convicted (pardoned everyone who attempted a coup on Jan 6 2021). Victor Orban, surely he'll get convicted. Benjamin N., Vladimir P.: wanted by ICC. (This excludes cases like Jan Maršálek / Wire…

Having seen some of the footage, that is the oddest coup attempt I've ever seen. Wasn't the only violence a police officer shooting a woman climbing into a window?

Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#769

Post by philipallstar »

amelius wrote: post #406
PowerElectronix wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It deems to me that the rule of law is easier to apply to third parties than to the government that is in charge of administering it

Not if your government properly implements separation of powers, as is the case in most Western countries. Yes, I'm aware someone is trying to undermine it in the U.S. currently. That doesn't mean that companies are a safe haven suddenly.

The actual separation of powers that's a good idea is that between governments and companies.

Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#770

Post by philipallstar »

WhrRTheBaboons wrote: post #669
PowerElectronix wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It deems to me that the rule of law is easier to apply to third parties than to the government that is in charge of administering it

in some countries you can vote for your government and hold it accountable.

And your vote basically counts for nothing.
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