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Honda is killing its EVs

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Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#761

Post by simondotau »

jack_arleth wrote: post #738
simondotau wrote: post #716

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know enough about the software in BMW (NBT/OS7) and Audi (MIB2/MIB3) instrument cluster stacks to know there's at least as much complexity — if not substantially more — in many of the legacy brands. Not to mention the exponential complexity which comes from their highly modularised approach, where systems from a variety of external suppliers have to co-ordinate with each other. By contrast, the Tesla software stack…

The quip is on point, correct and highly timely. Volkswagen tried to evolve to a more "touch" based HMI -that everybody hated- and is now touting it's abandoning that HMI as the largest redeeming factor of it's cars. China is banning the ridiculous "innovations" on car handles and further "innovations" on steering wheels. The Tesla software stack has few advantages: it's cheap and can be easily revised when the Beta-…

At least your friend can add loops to the physical door-releases. If the problem is software defined, good luck hacking in even the simplest of one-liner bugfixes.

I agree Tesla door releases are silly, on both sides of the door. As a bald person in a city with hot summers, I am no fan of the glass roof either. But at least I can mitigate those. And neither are anywhere as maddening as being unable to wind windows up after opening the door. Or having to switch the radio off every single f****g time I start driving. While those might sound like mere annoyances, the repetitious inanity is utterly grating. I value physical ergonomics greatly, but there's something about pseudo-malicious software behaviours which make me angrier than any door handle ever could.

On a recent holiday I rented a Model 3 (pre-facelift) for a few weeks. It has a few quirks, but nothing that irritated me. It was an utterly pleasant experience. The quirky door handles became second nature within a day, for example. Navigating maps and music on that screen was less of a driver distraction than in many other cars I've driven. Not perfect, but well above average.

I do appreciate physical buttons, but my 1-series BMW from 2013 has taught me that there's something better than physical buttons. It's having systems behave well enough that the buttons might as well not exist. I almost never touch the climate control. Setting the internal temperature to 22 degrees seems to work perfectly all the time; somehow it always seems to do the right thing. The only intervention I regularly make is to press the "MAX A/C" button when driving home from sports or the gym. And I'm pressing that before I start driving anyway, so it's not a driver ergonomics issue.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#762

Post by trashb »

Loughla wrote: post #363
stackghost wrote: post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Americans in most of their country are besieged by massive SUVs and pickups. Driving a tiny little Japanese/Chinese import in, say, Oklahoma is asking to get literally run over.

I get the trucks and SUV's where you need them. I live in a rural area and without ground clearance and 4x4, I literally wouldn't be able to visit my parents. But my daily driver is a Honda Civic. Because 75% of my driving is done on paved roads that are well maintained (except in the winter). What kills me are the MASSIVE vehicles in the suburbs though. Why do you need a 3 ton suburban to drive around 2 kids on very…

Modern (suburb) SUV's spectacularly suck at most tasks, you have been falsely advertised to.

A 2010 Toyota Corolla is most likely a better offroader, a 1.8t VW Passat is a better tow truck.

If not for the tax benefit these SUV's enjoy they are useless.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#763

Post by chii »

sReinwald wrote: post #745
chii wrote: post #498

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> when they are really complaints about capitalism it's not a complaint about capitalism. It's a complaint about asymmetric bargaining power in the seller/buyer relationship. That's not inherent in capitalism. It's inherent in an anti-competitive market. The failure is in gov't making sure there's sufficient regulation to prevent monopolistic practises.

"It's not a complaint about water. It's a complaint about the wetness." If capitalism requires constant vigilant government intervention to prevent monopolistic practices, anti-competitive markets, and asymmetric bargaining power, then it seems to me that this is absolutely a complaint about capitalism. If anything, your comment just makes the indictment more damning.

i'd rather have the gov't be vigilant, than to have the gov't be the one monopolistic dictator. None of those problems of monopoly are inherent in capitalism - they exist in one form or another under a different market style (that of a command economy). It just appears different.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#764

Post by darkwater »

trashb wrote: post #754
darkwater wrote: post #727

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So why all this hysteria about cars tracking us if we already carrying phones with us that has been tracking us for almost 2 decades now? I'm being a bit sarcastic but also not. I understand the sentiment of people here but also the 2 standards applied.

Because you can choose to leave your phone at home and are travel everywhere by car if you don't want to be tracked. But you can't leave your car at home and travel anywhere. It is true that we don't need cars sending telemetry to track us since there is a conveniently placed identification number on the front and rear of the car, the number plate (used by government), but this is physically broadcasted and that limi…

I understand and agree in general, but the root issue is in the laws and what's permitted to companies. Giving your data to car manufacturers and 3rd parties should be mandated to be disabled by default by law and only enabled with proper informed consent.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#765

Post by Dumblydorr »

Vinnl wrote: post #749
ggm-at-algebras wrote: post #349

In Shenzhen for a tech meeting. The streetscape is quieter, despite high traffic levels and I hear not only MORE birdsong, but the birds do more complex songlines. The air is clean. For sure some of this is because it's a coastal city and has fresh sea breezes, but I've been in other Chinese coastal cities in times past and the air was significantly less clean. There are social upsides for an almost-all-EV city. This…

AFAIK, beyond a certain speed (~25km/h?), EVs make just as much noise as ICEs, since the noise is then mainly generated by the tyres hitting the road. So I'm somewhat sceptical about this claim. Dutch city centres can be really crowded and yet actually quiet, because there are practically no cars. It's probably not Shenzen-level crowded, but I'd bet that the number of people that are being transported at busy locatio…

Source? That sounds dubious. Here in USA you hear blazing engines constantly, I’m skeptical a rubber tire is louder than that

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#766

Post by michaelt »

tcfhgj wrote: post #726
carefree-bob wrote: post #649

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is also the issue of longevity. Most people don't expect 20 year old laptops to keep working, but they expect 20 year old cars to keep working. The software defined vehicle is a disposable vehicle, and that means it better be cheap or someone is taking a depreciation bath.

It might surprising to you, but most people haven't already locked themselves into the apple prison

My 20-year-old PC hardware will just about work, but a lot of projects are dropping support for 32-bit x86 these days.

If you brought the newly released https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yonah_(microprocessor) in 2006 - no Windows 11 or later, no Debian 13 or later, no Ubuntu 20.04 or later...

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#767

Post by dzhiurgis »

gorfian_robot wrote: post #335
bryanlarsen wrote: post #123

OTOH, it really looks like Toyota is Goldilocks. Most companies invested too much too early and had to write off a substantial amount, but Toyota is rolling into 2027 with a small but nice selection of EV's. Over 25% of vehicles sold world-wide were electric in 2025, and that percentage is steadily increasing. So VW & Ford were "too hot", Honda is looking like "too cold" and Toyota might be the "just right" of the th…

I recently drove a brand new Toyota EV. It was ... fine. But I wouldn't buy it. Kia/Hyundai make the best EV's for the US right now.

> Kia/Hyundai make the best EV's for the US right now.

They are suffering with just incredibly terrible reliability. Every model was a failure on top of terrible support.

It's Rivian and Tesla, and it's not even close for the rest.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#768

Post by cyanydeez »

mikkupikku wrote: post #736
stackghost wrote: post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Americans in most of their country are besieged by massive SUVs and pickups. Driving a tiny little Japanese/Chinese import in, say, Oklahoma is asking to get literally run over.

I've got a Mazda 3 and I don't worry about SUVs or trucks running over me. Drive sober and watch the road, don't use your phone. Do this and you reduce your risk of an accident by something absurd like 1000x. The reason people love massive vehicles is because they're shitty drivers, they know they're shitty drivers, and they have no intention of changing. They want to text while driving and they want it to be the veh…

I love minding my own business and not having to worry about driving through narrow roads, etc. People definitely drive SUVs so they can try not to care about other people.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#769

Post by everdrive »

darkwater wrote: post #727
Nevermark wrote: post #688

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have a car now? A phone? If you are wearing pants you are being tracked right now!

So why all this hysteria about cars tracking us if we already carrying phones with us that has been tracking us for almost 2 decades now? I'm being a bit sarcastic but also not. I understand the sentiment of people here but also the 2 standards applied.

Because you can leave your phone at home? Because I hate my phone and I'm not happy about that either?

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#770

Post by deaux »

Vinnl wrote: post #749
ggm-at-algebras wrote: post #349

In Shenzhen for a tech meeting. The streetscape is quieter, despite high traffic levels and I hear not only MORE birdsong, but the birds do more complex songlines. The air is clean. For sure some of this is because it's a coastal city and has fresh sea breezes, but I've been in other Chinese coastal cities in times past and the air was significantly less clean. There are social upsides for an almost-all-EV city. This…

AFAIK, beyond a certain speed (~25km/h?), EVs make just as much noise as ICEs, since the noise is then mainly generated by the tyres hitting the road. So I'm somewhat sceptical about this claim. Dutch city centres can be really crowded and yet actually quiet, because there are practically no cars. It's probably not Shenzen-level crowded, but I'd bet that the number of people that are being transported at busy locatio…

There is no reason to be skeptical of this claim. ICEs are very noisy during acceleration. City traffic is very start-stop by its nature. Even in Dutch cities, even if you replace every single traffic light with a roundabout. EV engines are incredibly quiet when you put them next to each other.

In many cases, we're just very used to it especially because it's a "low rumbling" kind of noise. But it still affects us.

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