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Trump administration halts Harvard's ability to enroll international students

nytimes.com

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Re: Trump administration halts Harvard's ability to enroll international students

#761

Post by eli_gottlieb »

alephnerd wrote: post #245
neilv wrote: post #89

Can someone ELI5 the power networks involved here? I didn't expect to see Harvard getting smacked around or humiliated like this. Between Harvard, Yale, and possibly a few other schools, I thought they had influence throughout government. And that key figures in government were interested in maintaining and benefiting from that influence. And a lot of that influence seemed aligned with national interests. (For exampl…

> Between Harvard, Yale, and possibly a few other schools, I thought they had influence throughout government. Harvard and Yale didn't hire the right lobbyists [0][1][2] The other universities like Dartmouth, MIT, and public university systems did. One of the side effect of being large endowment private universities meant Harvard and Yale remained extremely insular and concentrated on donor relations over government…

>And because Harvard has a lot of HNW alumni, they always try to meddle in some shape or form - Wen Jiabao's best friend funds the Fairbank Center, Kraft funds and hosts events at Chabad, some al Saud branches fund a couple Islamic clubs, a bunch of alt-right leaning Catholic traditionalists fund the Abigail Adams Institute, etc. It's just inter-elite fratricide at this point because no one truly gives a poo about Harvard.

When you put it like that... should I make some popcorn?

Re: Trump administration halts Harvard's ability to enroll international students

#762

Post by eli_gottlieb »

multjoy wrote: post #444
simonh wrote: post #407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed, dictatorship is a gross exaggeration. Sliding toward fascism? Sure. Would Tump like to do away with election? He’s said he does, that they won’t be necessary.

In the bill that has recently been passed, the republicans have inserted a clause that means no administration official can be found guilty of criminal contempt by the federal courts. This will mean that the courts are literally powerless against the administration's malfeasance. The executive will be able to do what they like, and even if this bill doesn't pass the senate, SCOTUS will likely strike down as unconstit…

SCOTUS was packed even before Trump's first term. This is speed-running the cherry on top of a sundae that was already made.

Re: Trump administration halts Harvard's ability to enroll international students

#763

Post by Volundr »

klipt wrote: post #655
8bitsrule wrote: post #640

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Making the government small enough to drown in the bathtub? (Grover Norquist's goal)

Big military, big ICE and strong arming universities are not "small government" policies.

These are the pieces controlled solely by the executive branch. The goal is total unequivocal control, not anarchy.

Re: Trump administration halts Harvard's ability to enroll international students

#764

Post by csomar »

neilv wrote: post #89

Can someone ELI5 the power networks involved here? I didn't expect to see Harvard getting smacked around or humiliated like this. Between Harvard, Yale, and possibly a few other schools, I thought they had influence throughout government. And that key figures in government were interested in maintaining and benefiting from that influence. And a lot of that influence seemed aligned with national interests. (For exampl…

In my opinion the reason why they are getting smacked is because they are powerful. This is textbook 101 dictatorship power grab in action. Harvard in the US is law. If they can't fight this, probably nobody else can or will.

Re: Trump administration halts Harvard's ability to enroll international students

#765

Post by Braxton1980 »

Boogie_Man wrote: post #90
Braxton1980 wrote: post #66

I get flak for hating Republican voters with the general feeling of most people being that voters are not responsible for the officials THEY elected to represent them. I still haven't found a valid argument for why a voter isn't held responsible for the actions of representatives. Especially if the actions would be likely to occur.

In what way would you like to hold them responsible? If there are reprisals for voting, do we live in a liberal democracy? Edit: If by "hold responsible" you mean "be mad at them" then yes, of course you can, I can't read a comment section that isn't mostly that, and you knew that before making this comment.

>If there are reprisals for voting

That's what's happening now..

>"hold responsible" you mean "be mad at them"

You make it sound simplistic. I mean calling them out, demanding an explanation. You have friends who support this then let them know you think they are wrong.

All these horrific regimes throughout history, how did it happen? The majority of people agreed with it or was a vocal minority left alone because most people just wanted to avoid conflict?

I call this selfish. It's like hoping the problem gets solved later that way you get to maintain your relationships.

Re: Trump administration halts Harvard's ability to enroll international students

#766

Post by csomar »

arunabha wrote: post #680

The truly depressing thing is, a lot of people are actually happy about this action. How did things get so bad, so quickly? People who lived under authoritarian regimes have long said that things move slowly at first, but after an inflection point, get real bad, real fast. It's one thing to understand that intellectually, quite another to witness it first hand. Hopefully, the judiciary will block this particular madn…

> People who lived under authoritarian regimes have long said that things move slowly at first, but after an inflection point, get real bad, real fast.

If you want an indication why the US could go into dictatorship mode, look no further than to what is happening now. Dictatorship coups are extremely fragile in the initial phase. The very recent example is South Korea. It only takes a few determined people to sabotage the coup. In the same fashion, Trump would immediately stop if enough people were to take it to the street. So far, the silence is extremely loud.

Re: Trump administration halts Harvard's ability to enroll international students

#767

Post by csomar »

djoldman wrote: post #595

I was curious how this could legally be done. It's through this: https://studyinthestates.dhs.gov/schools/apply/getting-start... As far as I can tell, the headlines are not quite accurate. From my reading, a more accurate description would be that one cannot obtain a student visa to go to Harvard. So presumably, if someone could acquire legal residence in another way, they would be free to attend Harvard.

Well, good thing they can do that for the small price of $5 million.

Re: Trump administration halts Harvard's ability to enroll international students

#768

Post by Braxton1980 »

firesteelrain wrote: post #183
ceejayoz wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In what way would you like to hold them responsible? Being shamed into a little introspection wouldn't hurt.

This goes both ways.

Why would you feel the need to state this? Obviously it would and it should. If Trump was a Democrat and the same situation was occurring then Democrat voters should be called out

Re: Trump administration halts Harvard's ability to enroll international students

#769

Post by Braxton1980 »

vaidhy wrote: post #100
Braxton1980 wrote: post #66

I get flak for hating Republican voters with the general feeling of most people being that voters are not responsible for the officials THEY elected to represent them. I still haven't found a valid argument for why a voter isn't held responsible for the actions of representatives. Especially if the actions would be likely to occur.

Voters face the consequence for their voting. So, in that meaning, they are responsible for the actions of the representatives.

What Republican voter is facing consequences for this specific situation?

I do appreciate this notion as I read articles of government workers fired who supported Trump (why a person working for the government would vote Republican is beyond me).

Many of Trumps actions attack those that would either likely never vote Republican or can't vote (illegals, groups on special visas that lost them, foreign students, etc)

Re: Trump administration halts Harvard's ability to enroll international students

#770

Post by Braxton1980 »

0xbadcafebee wrote: post #307
Braxton1980 wrote: post #66

I get flak for hating Republican voters with the general feeling of most people being that voters are not responsible for the officials THEY elected to represent them. I still haven't found a valid argument for why a voter isn't held responsible for the actions of representatives. Especially if the actions would be likely to occur.

Why would you want a valid argument for holding a voter responsible for the actions of representatives? Arguments have nothing to do with it. Just hold them responsible, or not, for any reason. It makes no difference. Voters don't really choose a representative. They are given choices. Two choices, of which, let's face it, most people will just pick whichever one is on "their side". Those choices are created by outsi…

>Why would you want a valid argument..

I want them to think about it because... "let's face it, most people will just pick whichever one is on "their side"."

>And those choices, once chosen, will do... whatever the hell they want

What does this mean? It's not even close to being random or unpredictable.

>There's no consequence to them doing whatever the hell they want.

Elections

>So it doesn't really matter what the choice is to begin with.

I'm not sure what you are trying to say, do you mean an elected person has full control of their position's power? Then yes, obviously but you can predict what they will do, you are giving them power.

Yes, the options are two choices externally picked. And?

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