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Stargate Project: SoftBank, OpenAI, Oracle, MGX to build data centers

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Re: Stargate Project: SoftBank, OpenAI, Oracle, MGX to build data centers

#761

Post by _heimdall »

CSSer wrote: post #622
deknos wrote: post #589

This is so much money with which we could actually solve problems in the world. maybe even stop wars which break out because of scarcity issues. maybe i am getting to old or to friendly to humans, but it's staggering to me how the priorities are for such things.

For less than this same price tag, we could’ve eliminated student loan debt for ~20 million Americans. It would in turn open a myriad number of opportunities, like owning a home and/or feeling more comfortable starting a family. It would stimulate the economy in predictable ways. Instead we gave a small number of people all of this money for a moonshot in a state where they squabble over who’s allowed to use which ba…

Eliminating debt has a lot of unintended consequences. Price inflation would almost certainly be a problem, for example.

It's also not clear to me what happens to all of the derivatives based on student debt, though there may very well be an answer there that I just haven't understood yet.

Re: Stargate Project: SoftBank, OpenAI, Oracle, MGX to build data centers

#762

Post by smeeger »

belter wrote: post #576

This is a Military project. Have no doubts about it.

of course. its an arms race by definition so its all a military project. and already one whistleblower was brazenly murdered by our government to protect our horse in this race.

Re: Stargate Project: SoftBank, OpenAI, Oracle, MGX to build data centers

#763

Post by javcasas »

siva7 wrote: post #729
mattlutze wrote: post #726

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ellison should be nowhere near this: https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2024/09/omnip... The man has the moral system of a private prison and the money to build one.

> "Citizens will be on their best behavior because we are constantly recording and reporting everything that's going on," Let's be honest. He isn't wrong. I'd rather live in a society with zero crime than what we have now.

So having a policeman in each street and corner, except the policeman bias is set by these four oligarchs.

Welcome to... choose among many of the technodystopies in literature.

Re: Stargate Project: SoftBank, OpenAI, Oracle, MGX to build data centers

#764

Post by biimugan »

tim333 wrote: post #731
biimugan wrote: post #728

I really don't understand the national security argument. If you really do fear some fundamental breakthrough in AI from China, what's cheaper, $500 billion to rush to get there first, or spending a few billion (and likely much less) in basic research in physics, materials science, and electronics, mixed with a little bit of espionage, mixed with improving the electric grid and eliminating (or greatly reducing) fossi…

I'm not sure I buy the national security argument but as you say the other side can trivially steal or absorb theoretical discoveries but not trivially get $500bn worth of data centers.

Right, but $500 billion in data centers alone is not likely to get you very far in the grand scheme of things. Endlessly scaling up today's technology eventually hits some kind of limit. And if you spend that money to discover some theoretical breakthrough that no longer requires the $500 billion outlay, then like I said, China will trivially be able to steal that breakthrough and spend much less than $500 billion to reproduce it. Is "getting there first" going to actually be worth it? That's what I'm questioning.

Re: Stargate Project: SoftBank, OpenAI, Oracle, MGX to build data centers

#765

Post by _heimdall »

nejsjsjsbsb wrote: post #673
CSSer wrote: post #622

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For less than this same price tag, we could’ve eliminated student loan debt for ~20 million Americans. It would in turn open a myriad number of opportunities, like owning a home and/or feeling more comfortable starting a family. It would stimulate the economy in predictable ways. Instead we gave a small number of people all of this money for a moonshot in a state where they squabble over who’s allowed to use which ba…

Eliminating some student debt is a fish. Free university is the fishing rod. Do that instead.

Free to the student sounds nice, but who pays for it in the end? And does an education lose a bit of its value when anyone can get it for free?

Re: Stargate Project: SoftBank, OpenAI, Oracle, MGX to build data centers

#766

Post by smeeger »

fsndz wrote: post #615
mppm wrote: post #558

Apart from my general queasiness about the whole AGI scaling business and the power concentration that comes with it, these are the exact four people/entities that I would not want to be at the tip of said power concentration.

What do you prefer ? Letting DeepSeek and China lead the AI war ? DeepSeek R1 is a big wake up call https://open.substack.com/pub/transitions/p/deepseek-is-comi...

the outcome would be exactly the same. AGI leads the human race off of a cliff, not in the direction of one human interest group vs another. the only difference would be that it was china that was responsible for the extinction if the human race rather than another country. i would prefer to die with dignity… the outcome we should all be advocating for is a global halt of AI research — not because it would be easy but because there is no other option.

Re: Stargate Project: SoftBank, OpenAI, Oracle, MGX to build data centers

#767

Post by rTX5CMRXIfFG »

DebtDeflation wrote: post #695
A4ET8a8uTh0_v2 wrote: post #629

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just Ellison alone brings unwelcome feeling of having Oracle craziness forced down our collective throats, but I share your concern about the unholy alliance generated in front of us.

My immediate reaction to the announcement was one of these is not like the others. OpenAI, a couple of big investment funds, Microsoft, Nvidia, and...............Oracle?

Oracle has a lot of valuable classified information about the state and its enemies due to its business.

Re: Stargate Project: SoftBank, OpenAI, Oracle, MGX to build data centers

#768

Post by _heimdall »

buran77 wrote: post #626
CSSer wrote: post #622

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For less than this same price tag, we could’ve eliminated student loan debt for ~20 million Americans. It would in turn open a myriad number of opportunities, like owning a home and/or feeling more comfortable starting a family. It would stimulate the economy in predictable ways. Instead we gave a small number of people all of this money for a moonshot in a state where they squabble over who’s allowed to use which ba…

Repaying student loans makes a lot of people a little richer. The current initiative makes a few people a lot richer. If you ask some people, the former is a very communist/socialist way of thinking (bad), while the latter is pure, unadulterated capitalism (good).

One of the more destructive situations in capitalism is the fact that (financially) helping the many will increase inflation and lead to more problems.

When a few people get really rich it kind of slips through the gaps, the broader system isn't impacted too much. When most people get a little rich they spend that money and prices go up. Said differently, wealth is all relative so when most people get a little more rich their comparative wealth didn't really change.

Re: Stargate Project: SoftBank, OpenAI, Oracle, MGX to build data centers

#769

Post by eichi »

383toast wrote: post #208

Where are they getting the $500B? Softbank's market cap is 84b and their entire vision fund is only $100b, Oracle only has $11b cash on hand, OpenAI's only raised $17b total...

Probably from the corrupted financial system, but we need to forword the project, haha

Re: Stargate Project: SoftBank, OpenAI, Oracle, MGX to build data centers

#770

Post by thelastgallon »

mattlutze wrote: post #726
mppm wrote: post #558

Apart from my general queasiness about the whole AGI scaling business and the power concentration that comes with it, these are the exact four people/entities that I would not want to be at the tip of said power concentration.

Ellison should be nowhere near this: https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2024/09/omnip... The man has the moral system of a private prison and the money to build one.

Citizens will be on their best behavior because we are constantly recording and reporting everything that's going on," Ellison said, describing what he sees as the benefits from automated oversight from AI and automated alerts for when crime takes place. "We're going to have supervision," he continued. "Every police officer is going to be supervised at all times, and if there's a problem, AI will report the problem and report it to the appropriate person.

What is far more important to understand is to ignore all that nonsense and focus on who makes money? It will be Ellison and his buddies making tens of billions of dollars/year selling 'solutions' to local governments, all paid by your property taxes. This also enables an ecosystem of theft, where others benefit a lot more. With the nexus of Private Prisons, kids for cash judges (or judges investing in stock of prisons), DEA/police unions, DEA unions, small rural towns increasing prison population (because they get added to the total pop, and get funds allocated).

More importantly this is extremely attractive to police who can steal billions every day from civil forfeiture, they have access to anyone who makes a bank withdrawal or transacts in cash, all displayed in real time feeds, ready for grabbing!

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