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Apple introduces M4 chip

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Re: Apple introduces M4 chip

#761

Post by acdha »

cyanydeez wrote: post #757
rsp1984 wrote: post #457

Together with next-generation ML accelerators in the CPU, the high-performance GPU, and higher-bandwidth unified memory, the Neural Engine makes M4 an outrageously powerful chip for AI. In case it is not abundantly clear by now: Apple's AI strategy is to put inference (and longer term even learning) on edge devices. This is completely coherent with their privacy-first strategy (which would be at odds with sending dat…

their privacy strategy is to make you feel comfortable with their tech so you don't mind when they shop it around to the highest bidder. Make no mistake, they're just waiting for the right MBA to walk through the door, see the sky high value of their users and start chop shopping that. Enshitiffication is always available to the next CEO, and this is just going to be more and more tempting as the value of the walled…

Yes, it’s possible that they’ll change in the future but that doesn’t make it inevitable. Everything you describe could have happened at any point in the last decade or two but didn’t, which suggests that it’s not “waiting for the right MBA” but an active effort to keep the abusive ones out.

One thing to remember is that they understand the value of long-term investments. They aren’t going to beat Google and Facebook at advertising and have invested billions in a different model those companies can’t easily adopt, and I’m sure someone has done the math on how expensive it would be to switch.

Re: Apple introduces M4 chip

#762

Post by felixding »

rsp1984 wrote: post #457

Together with next-generation ML accelerators in the CPU, the high-performance GPU, and higher-bandwidth unified memory, the Neural Engine makes M4 an outrageously powerful chip for AI. In case it is not abundantly clear by now: Apple's AI strategy is to put inference (and longer term even learning) on edge devices. This is completely coherent with their privacy-first strategy (which would be at odds with sending dat…

> This is completely coherent with their privacy-first strategy

Do not believe what they say, watch what they do.

Re: Apple introduces M4 chip

#763

Post by Petersipoi »

s1k3s wrote: post #538
rsp1984 wrote: post #457

Together with next-generation ML accelerators in the CPU, the high-performance GPU, and higher-bandwidth unified memory, the Neural Engine makes M4 an outrageously powerful chip for AI. In case it is not abundantly clear by now: Apple's AI strategy is to put inference (and longer term even learning) on edge devices. This is completely coherent with their privacy-first strategy (which would be at odds with sending dat…

For everyone else who doesn't understand what this means, he's saying Apple wants you to be able to run models on their devices, just like you've been doing on nvidia cards for a while.

Awesome. I'm going to go tell my mom she can just pull her Nvidia card out of her pocket at the train station to run some models.

On second thought.. maybe it isn't "just like you've been doing on Nvidia cards for a while"

Re: Apple introduces M4 chip

#764

Post by _akhe »

Havoc wrote: post #747
_akhe wrote: post #730

Anyone know more about the "NPU" (neural processing unit)? Basically a GPU specialized for AI?

Yeah. Basically specialises in fast matrix operations so focused on ai and ML. Vaguely like a gpu minus the graphic output and the pipeline needed for that.

Awesome thanks. Given it's an iPad I'm guessing that means consumer-facing AI which is very cool.

Re: Apple introduces M4 chip

#765

Post by data-ottawa »

al_borland wrote: post #377
asow92 wrote: post #332

Why are we running these high end CPUs on tablets without the ability to run pro apps like Xcode? Until I can run Xcode on an iPad (not Swift Playgrounds), it's a pass for me. Hear me out: I don't want to bring both an iPad and Macbook on trips, but I need Xcode. Because of this, I have to pick the Macbook every time. I want an iPad, but the iPad doesn't want me.

WWDC is a month away. I’m hoping for some iPadOS updates to let people actually take advantage of the power they put in these tablets. Apple has often released new hardware before showing off new OS features to take advantage of it. I know people have been hoping for that for a long time, so I’m not holding my breath.

I’ve been hoping for the same thing since I bought my M1 iPad just before WWDC.

As much as I’d like the OLED screen and lighter weight, I don’t have any compelling argument to buy a new one.

Re: Apple introduces M4 chip

#766

Post by Petersipoi »

izacus wrote: post #84
praseodym wrote: post #10

"With these improvements to the CPU and GPU, M4 maintains Apple silicon’s industry-leading performance per watt. M4 can deliver the same performance as M2 using just half the power. And compared with the latest PC chip in a thin and light laptop, M4 can deliver the same performance using just a fourth of the power." That's an incredible improvement in just a few years. I wonder how much of that is Apple engineering a…

Apple usually massively exaggerates their tech spec comparison - is it REALLY half the power use of all times (so we'll get double the battery life) or is it half the power use in some scenarios (so we'll get like... 15% more battery life total) ?

> so we'll get double the battery life

This is an absurd interpretation. Nobody hears that and says "they made the screen use half the energy".

Re: Apple introduces M4 chip

#767

Post by xyst »

marinhero wrote: post #318

I get frustrated seeing this go into the iPad and knowing that we can't get a shell, and run our own binaries there. Not even as a VM like [UserLAnd]( https://userland.tech ). I could effectively travel with one device less in my backpack but instead I have to carry two M chips, two displays, batteries, and so on... It's great to see this tech moving forward but it's frustrating to not see it translate into a more si…

yup - im honestly tired of the Apple ~~~jail~~~ ecosystem.

I love the lower power usage/high efficiency of ARM chips but the locked down ecosystem is a drag.

Just the other day, I was trying to get gpu acceleration to work within a vm on my m1 mac. I think it’s working? But compared to native it’s slow.

I think it’s just a misconfig, somewhere (ie, hypervisor or qemu or UTM or maybe the emulation service in vm).

On other systems (intel/amd + nvidia/radeon) this is more or less a “pass through” but on mac it’s a different beast.

Re: Apple introduces M4 chip

#768

Post by xyst »

LeoPanthera wrote: post #492
marinhero wrote: post #318

I get frustrated seeing this go into the iPad and knowing that we can't get a shell, and run our own binaries there. Not even as a VM like [UserLAnd]( https://userland.tech ). I could effectively travel with one device less in my backpack but instead I have to carry two M chips, two displays, batteries, and so on... It's great to see this tech moving forward but it's frustrating to not see it translate into a more si…

UTM can be built for iOS.

best you can hope for is cpu pass through. Gl with using the rest of the chip

Re: Apple introduces M4 chip

#769

Post by mtoner23 »

deergomoo wrote: post #678
asow92 wrote: post #332

Why are we running these high end CPUs on tablets without the ability to run pro apps like Xcode? Until I can run Xcode on an iPad (not Swift Playgrounds), it's a pass for me. Hear me out: I don't want to bring both an iPad and Macbook on trips, but I need Xcode. Because of this, I have to pick the Macbook every time. I want an iPad, but the iPad doesn't want me.

I've been saying this for years, I would love to get a desktop Mac and use an iPad for the occasional bit of portable development I do away from a desk, like when I want to noodle on an idea in front of the TV. I'm very happy with my MacBook, but I don't like that the mega expensive machine I want to keep for 5+ years needs to be tied to a limited-life lithium battery that's costly and labour intensive to replace, ju…

get a macbook then? they are similarly price to an ipad pro

Re: Apple introduces M4 chip

#770

Post by snypher »

MBCook wrote: post #313
NorwegianDude wrote: post #264

> M4 has Apple’s fastest Neural Engine ever, capable of up to 38 trillion operations per second, which is faster than the neural processing unit of any AI PC today. I always wonder what crazy meds Apple employees are on. Two RTX 4090s is quite common for hobbyist use, and that is 1321 TOPS each, making two over 69 times more than what Apple claims to be the fastest in the world. That performance is literally less tha…

That’s not a neural processing unit. It’s a GPU. They said they had the fastest NPU in a PC. Not the fastest on earth (one of the nVidia cards, probably). Not the fastest way you could run something (probably a 4090 as you said). Just the fastest NPU shipping in a PC. Probably consumer PC. It’s marketing, but it seems like a reasonable line to draw to me. It’s not like when companies draw a line like “fastest car und…

But I can't just say I have "the world's fastest GXZ", when GXZ is just some marketing phrase. If we're willing to accept a GPU ~= NPU then it's just a meaningless claim.
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