Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends • Hacker News Board

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#761

Post by cmurf » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 10:35 PM UTC

dj_gitmo wrote: post #554

andrey123 wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[Disclaimer: Russian] According to my estimations, probably at least 95% of people who are "against the war" do not go out to participate in protests. My estimations are based on talking to my colleagues (large IT company). Yes, starting from now, protesting becomes more risky (you may go to jail for years if you get caught second time). But just a week ago, it was mostly harmless (yes, some people get arrested for f…

American here, and I am involved with the US anti-war movement. I really wish we could get 5% involved with the movement, but people don't get interested unless it starts affecting them or their family. To this day, the most active members of the US anti-war movement are baby boomers because they were being drafted to fight in Vietnam. The US ended the draft after Vietnam. The sanctions in Russia could build resistan…

There's always this catch-22 with participation. People in America don't think it affects them, so they don't participate. Same thing happened in Russia though. And then suddenly it did. Americans statistically don't vote issues, they vote tribe - straight ticket Democrat or Republican or whatever. The tribal aspect in the U.S. routinely bites us in the butt, even aside from the problem of a democracy where a minority is winning more national elections than the majority due to the Senate and Electoral College.

I suggest folks re-read about the Cold War. A good short one with the basics is The Cold War: A Very Short Introduction (there's many, many other topics in that series). Why? Because the Cold War is a direct result of diverging histories, needs, ideologies between the U.S. and USSR's methods of imposing their view on the vulnerable world. That's probably going to start happening again with Russia as a lesser influence than it was in the first Cold War, and China as a bigger influence in the next one.

I really wish the U.S. would do more to give the rest of the world more power and responsibility for solving these problems in the U.N. The super powers need to be held accountable too if we are to avoid proxy wars. The super powers won't engage in direct conflict because the risk of nuclear escalation is too high. The problem remains with proxy wars.

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#762

Post by lolinder » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 10:37 PM UTC

akrymski wrote: post #550

lolinder wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The definition of an oligarch is "someone who is part of a small group that runs a country." (Wiktionary) So, you can try to claim that Russia doesn't have oligarchs, but if they exist you can't say that they don't run the country. EDIT: For example, if the country is run by the military as you say, then the top leaders of the military would make up the oligarchy and each of them would be an oligarch . I'm unsure how…

Sure, but the sanctions are aimed at the rich businessmen not military leaders (who aren't necessarily all that rich). Eg Khadorkovsky was the richest oligarch of Russia, has been jailed and became a major opponent of Putin. Wonder who are the oligarchs of USA by that definition?

What makes you think you know better than anyone else who is actually running Russia?

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#763

Post by awb » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 10:39 PM UTC

bitcharmer wrote: post #194

BobbyJo wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Leaving is an effective way of changing it.

On the contrary. Leaving results in cementing the status quo because the population that remains are blind Putin followers.

There’s always infighting though. A dictator always has to have some kind of internal enemy to blame.

If the anti-war population leaves, they’ll go after anyone who’s not actively supporting war. Until you reach full, North Korea-style indoctrination, at which point the brain drain is massive.

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#764

Post by lowkey » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 10:40 PM UTC

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #725

lowkey wrote: post #717

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So we should just let Russia invade whatever country it wants and kill their way through Europe because otherwise ordinary Russian citizens might suffer? No, absolutely not but that is a false dichotomy and I think you also know that. This isn’t a simple binary choice between doing nothing and imposing broad-stroke sanctions on every single citizen of Russia. One simple first step could be for the US and Germany an…

>This isn’t a simple binary choice between doing nothing and imposing broad-stroke sanctions on every single citizen of Russia. Again, the west is not attacking Russian citizens, but the Russian government. We can't change the fact that ordinary Russians are subject to the Russian government and therefore will also suffer to a degree no matter how you try to slice the sanctions. Especially when Russia would rather de…

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Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#765

Post by jpindar » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 10:45 PM UTC

risyachka wrote: post #337

bsedlm wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

a lot of people seem ok with punishing Russian individuals for the actions of the government. maybe these people have grown in better functioning democracies (unlike Russia or my own country) so they act as if the people were well represented by their governments; unlike reality for most countries with a serious corruption problem.

Have you seen any major rebellions in Russia in the last decade? No. Here is a kicker - there were few coups even in North Korea. So russians are fine with regime. And even though actions speak louder than words, most people even didn't SPEAK against it until few days ago. So unless you openly spoke against putin and regime for years, you were part of the problem. Also, in Ukraine people go against armed forces with…

>15 day jail time

15 YEARS. I'd rather die, especially if I was giving my life for my country.

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#766

Post by akimball » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 10:48 PM UTC

helge9210 wrote: post #465

lowkey wrote: post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like you are conveniently skipping the part where millions of ordinary Russians are being economically devastated by broad brush sanctions that punish the poor and middle class Russians who are innocent of war crimes, simply because they were unfortunate to be born in the wrong country and they may justifiably be afraid for their lives if they protest. For those who say beat the war drums, punish them all, jus…

> are you ready to enlist in the Ukraine militia or is that too much to ask? Not so fast. Militias are full. You can't even bribe your way in.

Today, Ukraine MoD announced they will take anyone, except Russian citizens - no military experience required. 16000 Ukraine foreign legion sign-ups last I heard.

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#767

Post by lowkey » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 10:50 PM UTC

leshow wrote: post #752

lowkey wrote: post #731

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately I don’t have the perfect answer to immediately end this conflict with no collateral damage to anyone as you said. That doesn’t mean I advocate arbitrarily punishing innocent civilians for the actions of their rulers - especially when those rulers are proven to be authoritarians who can and will ruthlessly crush dissent from their populace. If you read my other comments on this thread you will see I shar…

> Namely the west should cut off Russia’s supply of money by banning the purchase of Russian oil. I don't think that's sufficient. You mentioned the collapse of the ruble, this is an outcome that heavily effects Russians but also directly effects the ability for the war to be financed. In the end, you cannot separate the two, in order to apply enough pressure to one you must invariably harm the other.

Estimates vary but it seems the current sanctions include a carve-out allowing Russia to sell $0.8-$1 billion USD per day in oil and gas. I can assure you that a significant portion of these funds is being used by Putin’s regime to wage this war.

I also think it is silly to argue that cutting Russia off from this direct subsidy from the west would be insufficient to have chilling effect on Putin’s war - especially when we haven’t even tried. How do you know it is insufficient?

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#768

Post by lowkey » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 11:03 PM UTC

retromario wrote: post #663

lowkey wrote: post #516

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I understand correctly, you are fine with broad economic sanctions on everyday Russians, most of whom are already poor especially after the collapse of the Ruble - and who frankly don’t have as much say over their authoritarian governments as American or German citizens who enjoy living in liberal democracies. At the same time you excuse rich countries such as the US or Germany who actively choose to continue to b…

I think it's only a matter of time until the US and Germany stop buying gas from Russia. It's going to cause a lot of pain, especially for us in Germany where nearly a third of gas is imported from Russia. But that's the point, there are no more easy ways to put pressure on Putin. We are all going to feel a lot of pain before things get better. What is happening to the Russian people is tragic, but it pales in compar…

Sure we do. Currently we are giving Putin up to a Billion USD per day to buy his oil and gas.

If we cut off this market it would cripple Putin’s war in Ukraine much more effectively than arming Ukrainians on the ground.

Add in energy subsidies to affected customers in need of economic support to offset the inevitable increase in oil/gas prices in the short-term and we can blunt the worst of the pain on regular Europeans.

Why is this proposal not even worth considering? Broad economic sanctions are most definitely not the only option to pressure Putin.

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#769

Post by phoe-krk » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 11:06 PM UTC

MonkeyClub wrote: post #712

enaaem wrote: post #667

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Turning "special operations" into a meme is a great idea. Use it jokingly in every day life. If everyone start using it you have won your first battle.

So, Putin won?

Not really. After all, there are no sanctions, it's a financial special operation in Russia.

The term's already become a meme in some places on the Internet.

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#770

Post by pacifier007 » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 11:07 PM UTC

therusskiy wrote: post #6

I managed to escape the country yesterday, had to flight to Egypt of all places, because ALL (even business) tickets were sold out. The recent news is that starting March 6 all international flights are suspended, the trap has closed. The disheartening thing is that even if you never supported Putin, other countries treat you as enemy. I am at Georgia now and banks refuse to open bank accounts to Russians, and I need…

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