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Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

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Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#731
post #675
post #516

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I understand correctly, you are fine with broad economic sanctions on everyday Russians, most of whom are already poor especially after the collapse of the Ruble - and who frankly don’t have as much say over their authoritarian governments as American or German citizens who enjoy living in liberal democracies. At the same time you excuse rich countries such as the US or Germany who actively choose to continue to b…

I'm sure the world would love to hear your solution for how to end the conflict in Ukraine with zero collateral damage anywhere. To me, it seems like there is simply no way to make the ruling class of Russia suffer without invariably harming the average Russian.

Unfortunately I don’t have the perfect answer to immediately end this conflict with no collateral damage to anyone as you said.

That doesn’t mean I advocate arbitrarily punishing innocent civilians for the actions of their rulers - especially when those rulers are proven to be authoritarians who can and will ruthlessly crush dissent from their populace.

If you read my other comments on this thread you will see I shared some ideas that I believe would both be more targeted towards Russia’s elite, while also bringing more direct pain to defund Putin’s ability to wage war.

Namely the west should cut off Russia’s supply of money by banning the purchase of Russian oil.

I realize this action will hurt regular Ukrainians and other Innocent Europeans which is why I also advocate for direct subsidies to reduce the cost of energy for these affected populations, paid for by western governments.

TL;DR: One strategy we might try to make it harder for the elites to wage war would be to stop giving them money to wage war while at the same time temporarily subsidizing energy costs for populations affected by the oil sanctions.

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#732

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In some way you’re right. But it’s important to note that we haven’t chosen this government, we haven’t chosen this country we live in. I personally lost any hope to change it one year earlier after participating in pro-Navalny protests. Now, I just don’t want to have anything in common with this government. I’m choosing another one. And I’m not going to pay taxes to Russian government anymore

>But it’s important to note that we haven’t chosen this government, we haven’t chosen this country we live in. From my perspective this is the only meaningful change you can make. If my government ever starts getting in my way too much I'll find another one. Voting with my feet literally. We have this luxury as in-demand professionals. Kind of hard for me to empathize with Russian developers when they had decades to…

As someone who lived under the Islamic Republic of Iran for half his life, what ends up happening with the "voting with your feet" strategy is that the country ends up with a "brain drain". This worsens the situation because the only people remaining are the ones who either had no means of escaping or have been indoctrinated by the government; thus making the change from "within" even more difficult.

That being said, it's hard to blame anyone. Staying and fighting leads to bloodshed, for example when the "green movement" started in Iran in 2009 [0] after the election, the government immediately started firing live rounds at people, arresting protestors and blacking out all communication from the outside world. Both my cousins were beaten in the Evin prison[1] for months and we were without any news from them for months.

Meanwhile, as a Middle Eastern living in the west, the hostility I experienced were enormous during those years and I expect the same to happen to Russian people now. Just look at the comments in the thread, much civility is already lost (and HN is one of the better communities).

Living under a dictatorship is suffocating. My heart goes out to all those suffering.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_Green_Movement [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evin_Prison

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#733

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

> Seems like most of the disinformation is currently coming from the NATO/Ukraine side. Sure... /s That's probably why the West has just enacted a law that whoever talks about the war in Ukraine in terms of war will face all kinds of trouble. Oh, wait. Really, you can't make this stuff up, do you actually believe that people on HN will read what you say and then dutifully turn to Pravda for their news from now on?

> That's probably why the West has just enacted a law that whoever talks about the war in Ukraine in terms of war will face all kinds of trouble. Oh, wait.

Right, in the West, we'd never do something like ban a news outlet. Oh, wait.

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#734

I managed to escape the country yesterday, had to flight to Egypt of all places, because ALL (even business) tickets were sold out. The recent news is that starting March 6 all international flights are suspended, the trap has closed. The disheartening thing is that even if you never supported Putin, other countries treat you as enemy. I am at Georgia now and banks refuse to open bank accounts to Russians, and I need…

[Disclaimer: Russian] According to my estimations, probably at least 95% of people who are "against the war" do not go out to participate in protests. My estimations are based on talking to my colleagues (large IT company). Yes, starting from now, protesting becomes more risky (you may go to jail for years if you get caught second time). But just a week ago, it was mostly harmless (yes, some people get arrested for f…

There is going to be big protest rally tomorrow and I’ll be there. My friends in police told me they are on full alert, even Putin’s guards (ФСО) will be on streets tomorrow. I don’t care. Many Russians are evil and full of Putin’s propaganda shit. I’ll go to streets tomorrow to meet other Russians who are better than that. I hope to see many of them.

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#735
post #116
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

a lot of people seem ok with punishing Russian individuals for the actions of the government. maybe these people have grown in better functioning democracies (unlike Russia or my own country) so they act as if the people were well represented by their governments; unlike reality for most countries with a serious corruption problem.

I think it's just how we tend to think, unfortunately. We conflate individuals into uniform groups. Americans certainly do it with domestic politics. ~100 million people become "the Republicans" or "the Democrats" and are spoken of as if they have a single, united mind behind them.

We do it everywhere:

You'll hear teenagers talking about their generation in the third person: "I recognize that my generation has a lot more to deal with than previous generations". College students in a similar way.

You'll hear us paint the enemy, as you described with "the Republicans" and "the Democrats" - although each will use other terms less endearing.

Politicians always talk about what "American families want .."

The recent culture wars as well, whether it was about Covid stuff, or the racial conversations that were prominent up until recently. Am I a "privileged X" or a "member of the community"? Either way, I will start the sentence with, "As an X, I want to say ...". Are "they" "anti-maskers"? Or are "they" "triple vaxxers"?

It's almost like people have internalized sociological statistics as identity, and internalize the language used about us, but from the outside.

It must be a great time to be alive if you work in a marketing department of a big tech company, given how easy it is to "target the market segment"[1] or perhaps engage in state-sponsored information warfare that pits right against left and left against right.[2]

1 - https://www.investopedia.com/terms/m/market-segment.asp

2 - https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.technologyreview.com/2021/0...

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#736

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Seems like most of the disinformation is currently coming from the NATO/Ukraine side. Sure... /s That's probably why the West has just enacted a law that whoever talks about the war in Ukraine in terms of war will face all kinds of trouble. Oh, wait. Really, you can't make this stuff up, do you actually believe that people on HN will read what you say and then dutifully turn to Pravda for their news from now on?

> That's probably why the West has just enacted a law that whoever talks about the war in Ukraine in terms of war will face all kinds of trouble. Oh, wait. Right, in the West, we'd never do something like ban a news outlet. Oh, wait.

Let's have your list then of news outlets the West has banned.

Even all of Rupert Murdoch's shite is still operating last I checked and until last week Russia Today was spouting its propaganda 24x7. Fortunately that one has now been squelched but let's not pretend that it was news.

Or was that not what you meant?

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#737

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve yet to see any homeopathy advocates and conspiracy theorists attacking other countries. Stop pretending it’s the same thing.

I think he meant that in all countries, there are some people who believe in crazy things -- but that he didn't mean to make the comparison you reacted to

” I've been finding it very easy to empathise with Russians in this.”

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#738

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am empathetic to your situation, but if you lived in Russia and paid taxes in Russia, you did support Putin. You also supported him just by living there, which was a statement that Russia is a place worth living in. Also if you didn't protest, you did support him passively. The same can be said, probably to a lesser extent, about most of us living outside of Russia - if we bought things coming from Russia or didn't…

> I am empathetic to your situation, but if you lived in Russia and paid taxes in Russia, you did support Putin. You also supported him just by living there, which was a statement that Russia is a place worth living in. Also if you didn't protest, you did support him passively. If you're an American you don't get to criticize Russian citizens for this. It would be the very definition of glass houses and throwing ston…

I'm not an American, but I don't see how an argument is valid or invalid based on who makes it.

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#739

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In some way you’re right. But it’s important to note that we haven’t chosen this government, we haven’t chosen this country we live in. I personally lost any hope to change it one year earlier after participating in pro-Navalny protests. Now, I just don’t want to have anything in common with this government. I’m choosing another one. And I’m not going to pay taxes to Russian government anymore

Don't beat yourself over it. Now that you're out of the country, you can donate time and/or money to help fight for tolerance and against Putin regime.

That would be a tough fight according to this poll reported on the 23rd February. Probably a disturbing result for those who think the Russians are not broadly in line with the government. However at that time only 13% thought it likely for the Kremlin to initiate military action towards Ukraine.

https://edition.cnn.com/interactive/2022/02/europe/russia-uk...

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#740

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve yet to see any homeopathy advocates and conspiracy theorists attacking other countries. Stop pretending it’s the same thing.

This black & white view of good and evil is starting to get really tiresome. Is it the effect of modern movies/tv shows that causes this belief? In movies there's usually a clear/perfect/innocent "good" guy and a bad guy, but real life is rarely so cut and dry. It is perfectly possible for there to be two different parties, each of which (to different degrees of course) make bad decisions that hurt innocent people. B…

Well most people here are binary. Killing people and believing in astrology or homeopathy or whatever are not comparable. It’s not about good or bad. It’s about basic human morals and rights.
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