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US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

asia.nikkei.com

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Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#761

Post by AbrahamParangi »

bradleybuda wrote: post #731
cwhiz wrote: post #685

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China doesn’t allow many western companies to operate in China. Why should the US allow Chinese companies to operate in the US?? This is an outrage that we should not allow. They steal our intellectual property, create state funded companies that are given monopoly access to their markets, and then unleash their stolen products on the world market. And if American or other western companies try to compete on the grou…

Because allowing Chinese companies to operate in the US is good for American consumers. This isn’t a zero-sum game.

Consider every concern about facebook having too much power on things like elections.

Now imagine if facebook were controlled by an adversarial authoritarian regime.

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#762

Post by tehjoker »

Every step they take to distance the population from Chinese products makes the next steps towards heightened conflict easier for the government. China isn't an enemy of the US people, only of our elites. Part of what they're doing is protectionism for US buisness, which is funny because when US business is strong they promote zero trade barriers so that the "free market" means total domination by US interests. Part of what they're doing is creating a foreign enemy so they can blame the grotesque failures of the government on external enemies in an election year (both Rs and Ds).

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#763

Post by firmnoodle »

nickbauman wrote: post #727
pradn wrote: post #723

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A related idea: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance 'The paradox of tolerance states that if a society is tolerant without limit, its ability to be tolerant is eventually seized or destroyed by the intolerant. Karl Popper described it as the seemingly paradoxical idea that, "In order to maintain a tolerant society, the society must be intolerant of intolerance."'

Yes, Popper was the original on this thinking. Not Taleb. This is where the phrase "freedom requires we be intolerant of the intolerant"

I didn't know about Popper before. This rings so true today more than ever. I often joke about my home town of San Francisco that we are very open minded as long as you believe exactly the same things we believe.

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#764

Post by arcturus17 »

yushuf wrote: post #721
supergirl wrote: post #701

Earlier quoted context omitted.

so china won is what you're saying? their system is superior if the west has to switch to it

Yes. Once US starts playing China’s game, China has won.

China has been playing free market economics despite being a communist dictatorship, so by that logic, liberalism has won?

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#765

Post by vkou »

cwhiz wrote: post #753
bradleybuda wrote: post #731

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because allowing Chinese companies to operate in the US is good for American consumers. This isn’t a zero-sum game.

This short sighted policy is what has led to the slow decay of the American middle class.

No, the policy that lead to the decay of the American middle class is not China's rules on foreign investment.

The policy that lead to that is American companies embracing globalism, which is, by the way, an American neo-liberal ideology.

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#766

Post by learc83 »

bjo590 wrote: post #746
guessbest wrote: post #700

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the US can't provide consumer goods or because the US can't provide consumer goods at below cost to manufacture and distribute?

Often times it's raw ability to produce the product. We cannot suddenly produce the iPhone in the US. Other times the products produced are just too expensive. Go to your local Honda Powersports dealership and price a motorcycle then go to your local Harley-Davidson dealership and price a similar motorcycle. Even a made in Japan motorcycle, with Japan's most premium motorcycle brand, will be much cheaper than the mad…

Say we want to manufacturer some item, say cellphones, in the US. Start out with a small tariff on imported phones of 5%, then announce a schedule of slowly raising tariffs until phones manufactured in the US are cheaper than imported phones. Add a definition of manufactured in the US that includes something about the percentage of parts that must be manufactured here to prevent companies form only assembling them here.

For phones if there was a profit motive, I think it would take somewhere around 5 years. Repeat for any item for which we want to ensure a domestic manufacturing base.

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#767

Post by cwhiz »

vkou wrote: post #765
cwhiz wrote: post #753

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This short sighted policy is what has led to the slow decay of the American middle class.

No, the policy that lead to the decay of the American middle class is not China's rules on foreign investment. The policy that lead to that is American companies embracing globalism, which is, by the way, an American neo-liberal ideology.

You can embrace globalism without damaging your economy. You just have to choose to only deal with countries that play fairly. China does not play fairly and, as such, we should not do business with them.

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#768

Post by brummm »

tonfa wrote: post #404
pjc50 wrote: post #389

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe the 36,000 US troops in Germany? EU countries don't get to have "national security" that conflicts with the US to more than a trivial extent, like the Airbus/Boeing conflict. That's been a tradeoff that was accepted since the end of WW2. The US now complains about Europe not having strong militaries, having forgotten that for decades it was policy to discourage Europe from having strong militaries in case that…

> Maybe the 36,000 US troops in Germany? Do german people really care about those? (besides the obvious economic benefits in the towns where those troops are stationed due to local spending) I always thought it benefited the US more than germany (easier access to eastern europe and middle east).

Germans are actually happy that Trump wants to remove US troops.

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#769

Post by chucknthem »

tomp wrote: post #760
cd_2001 wrote: post #738

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please excuse me for my semi-rant. I don't mean to be too critical, but I think framing every news about China in this "the West vs China" angle is really counterproductive. First of all, "the West" is a very vague concept, quite unlike talking about China. Does it include all of Europe? Does it include Moscow then? Does it include parts of Latinamerica? Maybe you mean NATO (but then you should include Turkey too). O…

Freedom, rational thought, free speech, democracy, rule of law etc. aren't "Western" values, they're "Enlightenment" values. After the "West" adopted them, it (the countries, and the people) enjoyed unprecedented improvement in living standards, a scientific boom and so on. China is free to adopt those values anytime. In the meantime, I (and looks like many other Westerns) will be working towards ensuring that non-En…

The majority of Chinese people have seen an unprecedented improvement in living standards over the past 3 decades, with scientific and engineering breakthroughs to boot. Hard to see them adopt western values from their perspective, they're doing fine without it.

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#770

Post by fakeslimshady »

tomp wrote: post #760
cd_2001 wrote: post #738

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please excuse me for my semi-rant. I don't mean to be too critical, but I think framing every news about China in this "the West vs China" angle is really counterproductive. First of all, "the West" is a very vague concept, quite unlike talking about China. Does it include all of Europe? Does it include Moscow then? Does it include parts of Latinamerica? Maybe you mean NATO (but then you should include Turkey too). O…

Freedom, rational thought, free speech, democracy, rule of law etc. aren't "Western" values, they're "Enlightenment" values. After the "West" adopted them, it (the countries, and the people) enjoyed unprecedented improvement in living standards, a scientific boom and so on. China is free to adopt those values anytime. In the meantime, I (and looks like many other Westerns) will be working towards ensuring that non-En…

rational thought, free speech, democracy, rule of law .

Trumps administration has pushed the US backwards on all these fronts and has nothting to do with those other countries

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