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Dozens of Companies Are Using Facebook to Exclude Older Workers From Job Ads

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Re: Dozens of Companies Are Using Facebook to Exclude Older Workers From Job Ads

#761

Post by talmand »

user5994461 wrote: post #661
Hannan wrote: post #410

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems like there's way more on the low side than the high side, at least looking at Table 1 (below) from this PDF from the GAO: https://www.gao.gov/assets/680/670153.pdf Edit: below, the table contents Households age 55-64 with Households age 55-64 no retirement savings with retirement savings Percent of house- 41% 59% holds age 55-64 Median net worth $21,000 $337,000 Median non-retirement $1,000 $25,000 financial…

So, that's 25% of people having no rent to pay. Then an additional 50% who have a home but still a mortgage to pay. The statistics don't say when mortgages will end, so we can't do any meaningful analysis on the majority. There are more people on the low side, not WAY MORE contrary to your statement.

So, um, where you live once you pay off your house everything else is free and you no longer require an income?

Re: Dozens of Companies Are Using Facebook to Exclude Older Workers From Job Ads

#762

Post by OliverJones »

user5994461 wrote: post #94
015UUZn8aEvW wrote: post #67

I'm a grad student at an elite American university. Several weeks ago, some other students and I attended a recruiting presentation put on by a large multinational company I won't name. The woman who gave the presentation services her company's contract with a tech company, that, let's just say, has a big share of the search engine market. She emphasized that she was looking for diversity, because, as she said, "the…

>>> I'd like to start a business in 3 or 4 years, and I'm seriously considering going out of my way to target people like him. It'll be my competitive advantage. He could be 10 times more expensive than you. Did you consider that?

I'm a developer in my sixties. I guess I'm what most HN readers would call an "old white guy." I like working as a developer, and I do a decent job of it.

I'm drawing the same salary as I drew twenty years ago. (Never mind adjustment for inflation. It's the same actual number of dollars.)

I have a clear enough understanding of my trade that I'm willing to buy my own tools when they save me time (keyboards, monitors, development tool licenses, VM service fees, etc).

This all works for me. My kids are out of college without debt. I've got some money stashed in 401(k). I wouldn't mind retiring, but my small-company employer can't afford to hire somebody younger and they've asked me to stick around.

Re: Dozens of Companies Are Using Facebook to Exclude Older Workers From Job Ads

#763

Post by ojbyrne »

lmm wrote: post #542
nhebb wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone in their 50's, that argument makes no sense to me. If I were unable to find a job, you somehow think I'd hold out for premium wages?

Many people in their '50s do; a lot of people are anchored to their previous salary level and would never accept what they see as a "pay cut". And a company doesn't want to hire someone at a "below market" rate, for fear that they'd jump ship as soon as possible.

I'm in my 50s and I think your second statement is much more true than your first. Recruiters especially get in the mode where "what was your previous salary" determines what the offer is. When you're older, you're more likely to have savings, and taking a pay cut for the right (interesting) job is a no-brainer.

Re: Dozens of Companies Are Using Facebook to Exclude Older Workers From Job Ads

#764

Post by talmand »

jjeaff wrote: post #328
user5994461 wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Call it 5 times if you wish. That's a fairly normal range. Costs is more than just salary. 5 weeks vs 2 weeks of hollidays, 401k, health insurance, etc...

Still not realistic. Assuming an entry level dev in sv is making 100k, most 50 year old devs are not making $500k. More like 50% more or at most twice as much.

I would say from my experience that I could be making three times that of a junior developer at their first job, in my area. But I would not say that I am making twice that of someone with half my experience. Someone that's just five years behind me is pretty much making what I'm making.

This notion that experienced developers, as a whole in the industry, are making x times more than junior developers is nonsense. Utter nonsense spoken by people who have no idea of what they're talking about. It's true you can find outliers for that kind of thing, and I'm willing to bet they are specialty cases.

Early in my career I would get huge jumps in pay when I proved myself at a project. Almost fifteen years into this career and I don't get those huge jumps in pay anymore after a successful project. Not because I'm not deserving of the praise, but I'm already paid well to deliver based on my experience. A junior succeeds and gets a raise; a senior succeeds and moves on to the next project.

Could I get one of these mythical 300k jobs? I know I can. I'm willing to bet I could snag a 500k job if I pushed myself. But that would require sacrifices I'm not willing to make, give up hobbies that I enjoy, and live in a city I really don't care for. A city that would eat up the extra income anyway.

I'm more than happy with my current job that pays well and I get to mentor juniors every day, which I enjoy.

Re: Dozens of Companies Are Using Facebook to Exclude Older Workers From Job Ads

#765

Post by bluGill »

user5994461 wrote: post #264
nhebb wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone in their 50's, that argument makes no sense to me. If I were unable to find a job, you somehow think I'd hold out for premium wages?

A lot of people in their 50's don't need to work. As long as they bought their home when it was affordable, they are fine. Some have sizable assets that the younger folks can't dream to achieve in their lifetime. They won't accept work for less than premium wages, don't need to. That being said, I admit that there is also another part of the population who is struggling and desperate for work at any price. Last but n…

There are a few people. Not very many. Most people in their 50s have very little savings - http://www.rothira.com/average-retirement-savings-age-2017 has a nice breakdown - baby boomers average could live at most 6 years on their retirement savings - assuming the eat rice and beans...

My dad was in fact laid off at 50. Everybody knew he was very careful to save a lot of money, so they always said "but you must have enough money saved away to retire by now". His response was always "yes, but I don't have enough money to get to retirement". In the 15 years between 50 and 65 his money is expected to double twice which makes a big difference to his retirement income. If he had started drawing at 50 would have much less money to work with. He needed a job to pay bills.

Re: Dozens of Companies Are Using Facebook to Exclude Older Workers From Job Ads

#766

Post by bluGill »

user5994461 wrote: post #661
Hannan wrote: post #410

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems like there's way more on the low side than the high side, at least looking at Table 1 (below) from this PDF from the GAO: https://www.gao.gov/assets/680/670153.pdf Edit: below, the table contents Households age 55-64 with Households age 55-64 no retirement savings with retirement savings Percent of house- 41% 59% holds age 55-64 Median net worth $21,000 $337,000 Median non-retirement $1,000 $25,000 financial…

So, that's 25% of people having no rent to pay. Then an additional 50% who have a home but still a mortgage to pay. The statistics don't say when mortgages will end, so we can't do any meaningful analysis on the majority. There are more people on the low side, not WAY MORE contrary to your statement.

Too bad we don't know when they will pay off. A friend of mine just bought a house for $250k from someone who bought it in 1998 for $70k - 6 months before selling they refinanced for $225k. (this is all public information if you go to the right courthouse - he knows this because it is in the title).

Which is to say there are some people who don't have their house paid off yet, but will have it paid off before they retire, and then live rent free (but with other bills and taxes). There are other people who will not have anything paid off.

Re: Dozens of Companies Are Using Facebook to Exclude Older Workers From Job Ads

#767

Post by reaperducer »

015UUZn8aEvW wrote: post #67

I'm a grad student at an elite American university. Several weeks ago, some other students and I attended a recruiting presentation put on by a large multinational company I won't name. The woman who gave the presentation services her company's contract with a tech company, that, let's just say, has a big share of the search engine market. She emphasized that she was looking for diversity, because, as she said, "the…

I feel this every time I'm between jobs. I'm all of gasp 45, and know from experience that the coding job I have right now, I have to ride as long as I can because at my age I'll probably never get another job again.

It doesn't matter how skilled a person is, or how much experience they have, in Silicon Valley you have a better chance of getting hired as a 20-something serial dog molester than a 50-year-old experienced tech.

And filtering out older people, while illegal, is so very easy to do to 99% of applicants by simply by looking at the year they got their undergrad degree.

Re: Dozens of Companies Are Using Facebook to Exclude Older Workers From Job Ads

#768

Post by mankypro »

plorg wrote: post #745
gspetr wrote: post #724

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most Fortune 500 companies were founded by white men -> Most CEOs of Fortune 500 companies are white men. Is that problematic? Tax system already penalizes those who are producing wealth in order to subsidize those who are consuming it.

Alternately, the tax system "penalizes" those who lack wealth by advantaging those who make money by owning capital. Pretending like a pre-existing, often un-earned economic advantage implies some sort of inherent moral or economic superiority is an almost laughably privilege-blind perspective.

"often un-earned economic advantage implies some sort of inherent moral or economic superiority is an almost laughably privilege-blind perspective."

Using your logic (only related to this portion of your post, because as you stated money, does in fact, beget money), one should not work hard for one's progeny to have an inheritance? Should estate law just be modified and have all assets of a dead person go to the state?

Re: Dozens of Companies Are Using Facebook to Exclude Older Workers From Job Ads

#769

Post by mankypro »

bsder wrote: post #535
omginternets wrote: post #503

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The woman who gave the presentation services her company's contract with a tech company, that, let's just say, has a big share of the search engine market. If you're being oblique to avoid libel, it's worth noting that libel law doesn't care about whether nor not you name an entity. It cares about whether or not you've identified an entity. Google has been identified.

And if there were multiple people in that audience who concur about that quote, said entity is on the hook for a class action for millions of dollars. Somehow, I don't think this one is going to get pursued ...

There are multiple class-action suits going on in Silicon Valley for age discrimination as we speak - I know first hand the Oracle has more than one in place, and given that the O is full of gray hairs already, I can only imagine that the other big names are getting hit too...

Re: Dozens of Companies Are Using Facebook to Exclude Older Workers From Job Ads

#770

Post by magnetic »

omginternets wrote: post #503
015UUZn8aEvW wrote: post #67

I'm a grad student at an elite American university. Several weeks ago, some other students and I attended a recruiting presentation put on by a large multinational company I won't name. The woman who gave the presentation services her company's contract with a tech company, that, let's just say, has a big share of the search engine market. She emphasized that she was looking for diversity, because, as she said, "the…

> The woman who gave the presentation services her company's contract with a tech company, that, let's just say, has a big share of the search engine market. If you're being oblique to avoid libel, it's worth noting that libel law doesn't care about whether nor not you name an entity. It cares about whether or not you've identified an entity. Google has been identified.

Remember that it's only libel if it's not true.

It's possible that the report is true, but that the author doesn't want the consequences of unambiguous identification.

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