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What It's Like To Be Ridiculed For Open Sourcing A Project

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Re: What It's Like To Be Ridiculed For Open Sourcing A Project

#751
post #537

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He didn't merely say the project "wasn't good", he implied it in a snarky, very unconstructive way. Here's his quote from twitter: > Ever wanted to make sed or grep worse? http://github.com/harthur/replace In the world I live in, that's called being an asshole. Look, I'm not saying these guys should apologize (in fact, if this is how they apologize it's probably best they don't), I'm simply stating that they're dicks…

It shouldn't matter if it's unconstructive. He's not talking to the author of the code. I still don't see how being snarky, or god forbid considering being snarky, makes you an asshole. It's just some code; he's not insulting anybody.

Buried beneath the snarkiness, the implied constructive criticism might be along the lines of "don't re-invent the wheel, kid". I looked at Heather's code. It seems pretty tight to me.

Re: What It's Like To Be Ridiculed For Open Sourcing A Project

#752

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's pretty much what demeaning means, though. It's not "a single skill" as if you were telling Torvalds that his juggling skills were crap and he should keep his day job; if someone has enough coding experience that they're releasing OSS on GitHub, coding is quite likely their job (or they're in school to make it their job). So yeah, snarkily saying that the product of someone's career activity makes your eyes ble…

Their dignity should not be dependent on their job area being flawless. Thinking they screwed up on a single hobby project should not cause a loss of respect for the person.

There's a big gap between "not flawless" and "my eyes are bleeding" or "I can't make this stuff up".

Also: "should" != "is", I'm afraid.

Re: What It's Like To Be Ridiculed For Open Sourcing A Project

#753
post #700

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The effort you spend denouncing them- 116 words v.s. less than 160 characters total in theirs- makes you look like a tosser. Their actions weren't advisable by any measure, but you've certainly demonstrated a willingness to make up your mind about them, based off a number of extremely extremely short pithy statements. Dial down your indignation, friend: help us get rid of this reek.

> Dial down your indignation, friend: help us get rid of this reek. I agree with you and gave you an upvote. Maybe my comments do make me look like a "tosser" - but these people were behaving like bullies, plain and simple. And man, I can't stand that shit. I see it every day. People will go out of their way to make others feel miserable. Or they use their power/standing/influence to pick a fight with someone weaker…

Steven and Corey have both more or less begged off from even trying to say what they mean- they have simply apologized for introducing volatility, for hurting feelings. I find it outrageously presumptuous to take such short, pithy tweets, and to claim they were made with malice, intending to antagonize, or were in fact bullying.

The fact is Nodeites are renowned for rehashing the entrenched. It also, gasp, has callbacks. These people weren't gentle in pointing out a capital example of just these two things. I don't think that makes them bullies or bad people, nor do I guess they even considered the human behind the works nor hardly the work itself: my _guess,_ and indeed, everyone is guessing here, is that they were making a crack on the idea of replacer, as justly emblematic of what Node is renowned for.

And although I think one would be a fool to become so polarized in view as these people showed themselves to be, I would much rather we have open channels where such conduct is permitted, where we can be a little low brow, boorish or lively, and express our ruffian selves: I'd rather have a wildness. I prefer tolerance and resilience. I loath the intolerance that says we must sterilize and purify and be of good behavior, must watch ourselves constantly.

Harthur talks about feeling like her identity has been injured, wounded forever. Yet here we are condemning and slining insults, armed with the zeal she has given us. Here we are, enacting new moral codes, legislating terms where nothing but support and good manners towards one another will be accepted. She felt that she had not been tolerated, not encouraged, yet the response is to mandate intolerance of another behavior, yes a boorish one, but regardless, just another tripline for ourselves to unintentionally trip over. Let's instead seek discourse- which she did- and failing that, tolerance. Let's not go troll hunting, lest we lay too onerous a minefield for any man to hazard.

A girl got caught in the crossfire of polarized communities. She cried. Everyone felt bad, many got indignant and decried other people and other communities for their action or contact with the affair. The internet got more uptight about itself. That, to me, is the absolute losingest situation imaginable, and I'd handily pass out yellow cards to 80% of this topic as contributors towards winding ourselves up, of taking ourselves too seriously, of ascribing way too much levity to an event that was tiny in size, and which we have not been given a codex to understand- it remains a context free situation, one we merely make projections about, without knowing what the real intent was, we just know people tweeted, for whatever reason, because something struck them, and they created, made and shared new content about their experiences.

They shared. I don't understand, they haven't explained, I don't think I'd like it even if they did explain it better, but these were people keeping themselves amused, first and foremost. That that would be subject to so much scrutiny, the cause of injury, is itself the most tragic here. We need to be tolerant, and find good, not focus on censoring bad or fretting about our identities, as first Heather did, and now the three authors are likely doing.

Sorry for labeling your writing as tosser like, not cool of me. I feel like ascribing intent to what happened is an impossibility, and even with bad intent I'm still very uneasy with censoring, with mandatory good behavior. I beg for de-escalation.

Re: What It's Like To Be Ridiculed For Open Sourcing A Project

#754
post #530

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Then I see these people’s follower count, and I sob harder. I can’t help but think of potential future employers that are no longer potential." Speaking as a hiring manager, if I see people behaving like assholes on Twitter or mailing lists, those people go on my do-not-hire list. Yes, we are all assholes from time to time, but for some people it's a pattern of behavior. Those are not people you want to work with, n…

A lot of very talented and successful people are successful. Michael Jordan, Linus Torvalds, and Albert Einstein come to mind. If Linus Torvalds applied to work at your company, would you turn him away?

I know a guy who worked at Transmeta when Linus was there, and afterward he joked that anyone who got Linus hired should get their pay docked instead of a hiring bonus. So maybe.

Re: What It's Like To Be Ridiculed For Open Sourcing A Project

#755

What the fuck. (And I rarely say that word.) We've got to grow up. This is 9th grade all over again. You know, those weird people that do things that you don't understand? They're the ones that grow up and make big impacts on the world. Why can't we get over our negativity? We can't stop ourselves from thinking horrible things, or even saying them out loud to people around us, but surely we can restrain ourselves fro…

A good test of character is how one treats those that they perceive to be lower status than them. I'd say these guys fail that test.

So you ascribe personal, leveled, directed malevolence directly against Heather Arthur and her replacer library to their actions? You don't think it had anything to do with just doing it for kicks, anything to do with how people see Node?

Re: What It's Like To Be Ridiculed For Open Sourcing A Project

#756
post #157
post #83

Oh the irony http://blog.steveklabnik.com/posts/2011-08-19-matz-is-nice-s...

Well she wrote it in JS using Node, CLEARLY she was asking for it

If I weren't crying so hard right now I'd think about clapping. Too soon.

Re: What It's Like To Be Ridiculed For Open Sourcing A Project

#757
post #703

This guy needs to stop being a pansy and grow some balls. Oh noes! Someone on the internet doesn't like my work! My world is over! What are you, a little girl? Nine, maybe ten years old. I'm seeing pigtails and a frilly skirt. Get over it dude. It's impossible to make everyone happy. haters are going to hate. No need to make a big deal about it.

What are you, a little neckbearded basement dweller? There's probably little ten year olds girls ballerinas that could kick your wimpy ass.

Just, heads up, it was a girl that got wrecked on, and your comment is offensively sexist and, disregarding the situation, just generally inappropriately so.

Re: What It's Like To Be Ridiculed For Open Sourcing A Project

#758
post #667

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "that's called being an asshole" There's a difference between "being an asshole" and "sometimes acting like an asshole". We all do the second thing sometimes. A snarky comment and a bad apology may be an instance of the second thing. But they don't imply the first. Compare another toxic noun, "racist". There's a difference between "being a racist" and "making a racist comment". If people could apologize for the lat…

> A snarky comment and a bad apology may be an instance of the second thing. But they don't imply the first. Sorry chief, I'm gonna have to go ahead and disagree with you there. The snarky comment can be forgiven. (although I've since read other tweets/posts from David Cramer and it appears as though he really is that abrasive all the time) By contrast, a bad apology is a clear indication of someone's true nature. If…

He did not attempt to apologize, he defended his position. He wasn't being underhanded or antagonistic, he was attempting an objective justification. Nothing in there resembled passive-agression or "dickishness."

Re: What It's Like To Be Ridiculed For Open Sourcing A Project

#759

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. I wrote this blog post: http://paulbjensen.co.uk/posts/2012/07/11/thoughts-on-rails-... Then Tony Arcieri wrote this rebuttal: http://www.unlimitednovelty.com/2012/08/debunking-nodejs-gis... He made some good points in his post, but the snarkiness was in my opinion a bit uncalled for. Being labelled a Rails Enthusiast when I had worked with Rails for over 4 years (2007-2011), 2 of those at New Bamboo (a big R…

It's shocking the historical parallels between Node vs Rails and Rails vs Java. You'd think given the history of Rails that its practitioners (me being one for 7 years) would be more careful about dismissing a new technology for not being as "mature" and that you can "do all the same stuff" in Ruby. I mean lets be honest: there is no outright revolution in Node anymore than Rails was a revolution, rather it's a matte…

I hope Node can keep it's frontier attitude up. Rails and Rake have been very homogenizing boring exercises in top-down fascism. So much of Node's spirit is in tiny modules, in the freedom and ability to hack up and try new things, to always be inventing: it's cost to create are low, the assumed body of knowledge one has to bring into a new project are tiny, the conventions are borderline non existent, and that's all a huge boon for staving off fascist boring mundane dead-end consensus. Keep iterating, stave off the little death, don't become your entrenched patterns.

Re: What It's Like To Be Ridiculed For Open Sourcing A Project

#760
post #700

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Dial down your indignation, friend: help us get rid of this reek. I agree with you and gave you an upvote. Maybe my comments do make me look like a "tosser" - but these people were behaving like bullies, plain and simple. And man, I can't stand that shit. I see it every day. People will go out of their way to make others feel miserable. Or they use their power/standing/influence to pick a fight with someone weaker…

Steven and Corey have both more or less begged off from even trying to say what they mean- they have simply apologized for introducing volatility, for hurting feelings. I find it outrageously presumptuous to take such short, pithy tweets, and to claim they were made with malice, intending to antagonize, or were in fact bullying. The fact is Nodeites are renowned for rehashing the entrenched. It also, gasp, has callba…

I'll take a page from the book of the guys you're defending and make a pithy comment to add some "levity" to the situation, as you called it.

"At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul. " - Billy Madison

Man I love your version of tolerance.

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