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Keep Android Open

f-droid.org

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Re: Keep Android Open

#751

Post by Markoff »

BreakingProd wrote: post #383
cantalopes wrote: post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"if I wanna transfer money is much more convenient work big display, proper keyboard and mouse than from phone" You realize how ridiculous this sounds, right?

It reads like he made typos/autocorrect mistakes on his mobile phone! Which is a pretty funny illustration of the gist of what he was saying… it’s easier to make mistakes on phones.

yes, work=with

I'm not doing autocorrect typos when I type on computer keyboard, also banking on no gapps rooted phone would be kinda PITA

Re: Keep Android Open

#752

Post by Markoff »

raw_anon_1111 wrote: post #378
Markoff wrote: post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can get alerts in email or messages, no need dedicated app for that, I can track there also my balance, so only useful thing app provides are easy wire transfers from phone, which I never do, if I wanna transfer money is much more convenient work big display, proper keyboard and mouse than from phone.

You actually check your email regularly? How much effort does it really take to transfer a balance on a phone? For Bank Of America it’s: 1. Click on “pay & transfer” 2. Click on “transfer” 3. Click on “From” and choose account 4. click on “to” and choose account Then type in the amount and and click on the date? Is it really that much easier on a computer?

I use email corner with push, so I have emails instantly with notification to my smart watch, all my clients send me tasks through email

yes, especially the 4th point, the entering all the recipient's banking details on real keyboard is much more convenient than switching the windows and checking some microscopic numbers in PDF document on smartphone same copypasting them one by one between different fields (and yes, there are many companies which still don't provide QR code in their invoice)

Re: Keep Android Open

#753

Post by [deleted] »

pino83 wrote: post #747
ece wrote: post #736

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is cynicism or worse, the way to get more open hardware and software, is to buy it and use it, regulation and understanding will catch up. Sure people care more about things other than tech, that's never stopped me from pointing out how tech should work and advocating for it. I've used Linux for 25 years, and never have I thought it has enshittified. It's only Android in the last decade that has, much like the i…

Yes, Linux has not been enshittified in all these 25 years. I can confirm. I cannot even confirm that for the entire FOSS scene, though, where it is common sense nowadays to depend on Github and Discord, maybe also Youtube, Facebook, etc. But yeah, that's another story...

[deleted]

Re: Keep Android Open

#754

Post by goku12 »

aiauthoritydev wrote: post #511
sulam wrote: post #510

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm far from a Google apologist, but at the end of the day don't they have the right to write software however they want it? You have the right to build things the way you want to, fork Android, etc etc. If you're trying to say you have the right to tell Google what the code their employees write can do, well, I don't really agree with that. Sounds coercive, honestly. I wouldn't want them to do that to you and I don'…

It is little surprising a lot of smart people somehow miss this simple logic. Android is massive and extremely popular and I know several people who have been scammed already. It is important that Google makes this harder for scammers. Google is not doing this to harm developers but to protect their users.

That argument falls apart when you consider that:

1. The ownership of security can be entrusted with the user. For example, if the user wants to install a 3rd party app store that doesn't use developer registration, they should be able to do so. The consequences of that decision should be on the owner. FDroid is one such app store. But I trust it over play store any day.

2. Careless users can be prevented from making such decisions, and capable users can be prevented from making mistakes, by careful UI designs that provide copious warnings and require deliberate actions. We have plenty of examples for both. An example for a system that prevents mistakes with warnings is the certificate trust override in browsers. They allow you to override rejection of untrustworthy certificates, but not before you read a lengthy warning message and click a couple of buttons. Similarly, an example of a deliberate action is when you want a repo to be deleted on github or gitlab. They force you to type in the repo name as confirmation. Not only does it take multiple key strokes, it forces you to review what you're actually deleting.

> Google is not doing this to harm developers but to protect their users.

No. Google is doing this to satisfy their insatiable appetite for profit growth by squeezing their current revenue streams. This protects no one, but their shareholders and top executives. I'm a bit ashamed to have to explain this on HN.

Re: Keep Android Open

#755

Post by Tharre »

iririririr wrote: post #749
Tharre wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And that's objective. I don't think you understand what that word means. Regardless, your opinion (and mine) is irrelevant. People want at least some of the features of modern android, and any alternative lacking those is not going to be adopted by most people. Just look at how many people try GrapheneOS and find the minor things to be dealbreakers for them. And as long as that's the case you can't expect people to…

Name one feature android have today that was missing from comunity rom built on top of android 2.3. only sandox kerbel featurea, but that's a circular argument. Only things nobody wanted were missing then. Like fake AI photo enhancement.

Fully hardware-based disk encryption with key management. Or live captions. Or a far better java runtime with superior memory management. Or a million other things.

But even your own example works, just because you dislike camera filters, doesn't mean everybody else agrees with that. There are probably more women with smartphones that use those, then there are that don't.

Re: Keep Android Open

#756

Post by encrypted_bird »

goku12 wrote: post #754
aiauthoritydev wrote: post #511

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is little surprising a lot of smart people somehow miss this simple logic. Android is massive and extremely popular and I know several people who have been scammed already. It is important that Google makes this harder for scammers. Google is not doing this to harm developers but to protect their users.

That argument falls apart when you consider that: 1. The ownership of security can be entrusted with the user. For example, if the user wants to install a 3rd party app store that doesn't use developer registration, they should be able to do so. The consequences of that decision should be on the owner. FDroid is one such app store. But I trust it over play store any day. 2. Careless users can be prevented from making…

> I'm a bit ashamed to have to explain this on HN.

Don't be. Like it or not, this is a site run by venture capitalists and populated most heavily by software engineers, both of which have historically been treated well by capitalism.

Although it's improved in recent years, I've noticed there's still a lot of corporate bootlickers on this site.

Yes, it saddens me too.

Re: Keep Android Open

#757

Post by direwolf20 »

tux1968 wrote: post #624
direwolf20 wrote: post #569

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a very easy way to achieve maximum freedom: punish people who take away other people's freedom. To achieve maximum freedom, the one freedom people must never be allowed to have is the freedom to take away other people's freedom. Google must be punished for every software module they wrote whose sole purpose is to make you less free.

They didn't make you less free. They protected your phone from scammers. On top of which, nobody twisted your arm and made you buy from them, you're free to change the phone any way you want, get the debugger out and change it. You have everything you need, it's your phone, change it any way you want; and they have the freedom to not help you.

How do I unlock the bootloader so I can exercise my freedom?

Re: Keep Android Open

#758

Post by goku12 »

encrypted_bird wrote: post #756
goku12 wrote: post #754

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That argument falls apart when you consider that: 1. The ownership of security can be entrusted with the user. For example, if the user wants to install a 3rd party app store that doesn't use developer registration, they should be able to do so. The consequences of that decision should be on the owner. FDroid is one such app store. But I trust it over play store any day. 2. Careless users can be prevented from making…

> I'm a bit ashamed to have to explain this on HN. Don't be. Like it or not, this is a site run by venture capitalists and populated most heavily by software engineers, both of which have historically been treated well by capitalism. Although it's improved in recent years, I've noticed there's still a lot of corporate bootlickers on this site. Yes, it saddens me too.

I think you're getting downvoted because of your slightly strong language. Well! We will know that soon, based on how this post fares! The problem I find is that some people argue on the basis of outright weird logic, while neglecting the obvious. I really can't tell if they're talking on behalf of someone else's commercial interests, or if they really believe what they say.

Re: Keep Android Open

#759

Post by encrypted_bird »

goku12 wrote: post #758
encrypted_bird wrote: post #756

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm a bit ashamed to have to explain this on HN. Don't be. Like it or not, this is a site run by venture capitalists and populated most heavily by software engineers, both of which have historically been treated well by capitalism. Although it's improved in recent years, I've noticed there's still a lot of corporate bootlickers on this site. Yes, it saddens me too.

I think you're getting downvoted because of your slightly strong language. Well! We will know that soon, based on how this post fares! The problem I find is that some people argue on the basis of outright weird logic, while neglecting the obvious. I really can't tell if they're talking on behalf of someone else's commercial interests, or if they really believe what they say.

You're probably right about why I'm getting downvoted. But, you know, in my honest opinion, those people are just further demonstrating my point. They're probably actually paid well, or at least are afraid to badmouth the hand that feeds them.

But people need to realize that most of the population aren't treated well or paid well. Most of us don't have the luxury of being SWEs, or even white-collar workers for that matter. Most of us struggle to even put food on the table and have to scrounge week to week, let alone month to month.

So, I'm not bothered by the bootlickers downvoting me. At best, they're fooling themselves; at worst, they're class traitors.

If you ask me, the time for tactful language is long over.

Re: Keep Android Open

#760

Post by goku12 »

encrypted_bird wrote: post #759
goku12 wrote: post #758

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're getting downvoted because of your slightly strong language. Well! We will know that soon, based on how this post fares! The problem I find is that some people argue on the basis of outright weird logic, while neglecting the obvious. I really can't tell if they're talking on behalf of someone else's commercial interests, or if they really believe what they say.

You're probably right about why I'm getting downvoted. But, you know, in my honest opinion, those people are just further demonstrating my point. They're probably actually paid well, or at least are afraid to badmouth the hand that feeds them. But people need to realize that most of the population aren't treated well or paid well. Most of us don't have the luxury of being SWEs, or even white-collar workers for that m…

> But people need to realize that most of the population aren't treated well or paid well. Most of us don't have the luxury of being SWEs, or even white-collar workers for that matter. Most of us struggle to even put food on the table and have to scrounge week to week, let alone month to month.

+1

> If you ask me, the time for tactful language is long over.

Sadly, I reached the same conclusion a while ago. Subtlety seems to have lost all value and too much is at stake to keep on appealing to everyone's sensibility.

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