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Keep Android Open

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Re: Keep Android Open

#501

Post by realusername »

dmitrygr wrote: post #127
microtonal wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is not how the European Union works. One of the core goals of the EU is to guarantee the European single market. One of the core principles of the single market is the Freedom to establish and provide services [1]. The Apple/Google duopoly have effectively created a market within the single market where the core principles of the single market do not apply anymore. Tech has a strong tendency to favor outcomes wi…

Yes. I am effectively asking you what the moral justification for DMA is. I understand that lawmakers can make whatever law they want. I understand they made it. I am curious how people who agree this should be possible think of this from a moral angle, especially as engineers who make their living by creating intellectual property and probably wouldn’t want to see control of it seized randomly

The moral argument is that private companies aren't elected and Google/Apple aren't supposed to have the power they have, they aren't government bodies.

Re: Keep Android Open

#502

Post by Marsymars »

singpolyma3 wrote: post #411
Marsymars wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Thankfully you don't really need an adblocker for apps on an iPhone. Your browser could use one, but thankfully those do exist :) uBlock Origin on Firefox Mobile is significantly better than any Safari adblocker I've been able to find. (1Blocker's the best I've found for Safari.)

I use ublock origin lite in safari

They only share a brand and a subset of filter lists - the implementation and functionality of uBlock Origin Lite and uBlock Origin are entirely different.

When UBOL was released for Safari I switched to it from 1Blocker in hopes of getting a closer experience to the full uBlock Origin, but actually switched back after a few weeks - the filter lists in UBOL were letting through more ads than 1Blocker - and both of them are notably deficient compared to uBlock Origin in Firefox.

Re: Keep Android Open

#503

Post by 0xbadcafebee »

bigyabai wrote: post #472
0xbadcafebee wrote: post #394

I want Google to lock down their platform. Hardcore locked down. So locked down you can't do anything with it at all. Because people need motivation to do something hard. Android has been a bloated walled garden for years. It should have been like a PC w/Windows or Linux: anyone should be able to make an app (any way they want), publish it, let anyone who wants to download it & run it. But that was never the plan. Th…

> Imagine your ISP having total control over your desktop computer. Or killing a website, or program, because the ISP doesn't like it. It's not very hard to imagine? Most people don't expect that level of control anymore; their desktop just updates with whatever corporate slopware is pushed out seasonally. Websites come-and-go. It's not a hugely motivating rally-cry for average person. > We need to kill Android. And…

> just force Google to

How exactly are you going to force Google to do something?

Re: Keep Android Open

#504

Post by whatshisface »

fragmede wrote: post #500
greatgib wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even restricting the mitigation to "students and hobbyists" is bad. I should have the right to have parents, friends or anyone use a "free" store that is not under control of Google if the user and app developer wish so. But also, somehow there should be something done to avoid the monopoly forcing to use the Google services. Like major institutions like bank, gov and co being forced to provide alternatives like a we…

But unfortunately, it turns out that some people you interact with aren't actually your friend. That guy that seems totally legit and just wants your sister to install his fun little game/app that he wrote is actually trying to get her to install an app that's going to track your location and read all your messages and copy all your photos. To keep her safe from the "actually" bad people, of course.

>going to track your location and read all your messages and copy all your photos. To keep her safe from the "actually" bad people, of course.

The guy's name? Google. ;-)

Re: Keep Android Open

#505

Post by maxloh »

palata wrote: post #239
paxys wrote: post #73

The fundamental problem is that we are relying on the good graces of Google to keep Android open, despite the fact that it often runs run contrary to their goals as a $4T for-profit behemoth. This may have worked in the past, but the "don't be evil" days are very far behind us. I don't see a real future for Andrioid as an open platform unless the community comes together and does a hard fork. Google can continue to d…

What about the Android SDK? I don't think that this is open source, is it? As a developer, when you download an Android SDK you have accept a licence that is not open source, right?

Yeah. It is [1]. Surprisingly, Android Studio is open source too [2].

[1]: https://android.googlesource.com/platform/sdk/+/refs/heads/m...

[2]: https://android.googlesource.com/platform/tools/base/+/studi...

Re: Keep Android Open

#506

Post by danny_codes »

hsbauauvhabzb wrote: post #391
danny_codes wrote: post #387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve found the mobile websites for a lot of these cases to be fine. Not a great UX but not a blocker

Wait till you see how hostile Reddit is when you try and access via a browser on a phone

That’s how I browse Reddit actually. It is a bit janky, but I don’t like ads. Brave is reasonably good at giving you ad free Reddit on mobile

Re: Keep Android Open

#507

Post by rudhdb773b »

encom wrote: post #37
nimbius wrote: post #25

This isnt going to be a popular post because the HN crowd is very much a "China bad" crowd but I hypothesize China will likely step in and offer a fork that's compatible with open ecosystems not under the direct control of the us state department. This might be in the form of commits and investment in fdroid and pinephone, or a tiktok like alternative to the wests walled garden. Edit: this will likely exist "uncensor…

I would rather put my phone in the microwave than run Chinese Communist Party OS.

Why? If I had to choose, I'd much rather use a phone controlled by a jurisdiction in which I don't live or have any business.

Re: Keep Android Open

#508

Post by jajuuka »

Macha wrote: post #291
jajuuka wrote: post #250

>But Google said… Said what? That there’s a magical “advanced flow”? Did you see it? Did anyone experience it? When is it scheduled to be released? Was it part of Android 16 QPR2 in December? Of 16 QPR3 Beta 2.1 last week? Of Android 17 Beta 1? No? That’s the issue A bit ironic to not believe Google is doing this. The same questions have same answers when asked about when Google is locking down side loading. A bit se…

Google made the first move with their initial plan to lock it down, so the onus is on Google to calm the fears they caused if they don't want people to distrust them.

But they did. That was the announcement that they would still allow sideloading. If you are still afraid then that's kind of on you. Seems silly to expect Google to put out info about enabling sideloading for a system they haven't even released yet. It could very well be in there day 1. Nobody knows.

Re: Keep Android Open

#509

Post by jajuuka »

shafyy wrote: post #308
jajuuka wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's almost two years and they are still doing it. So they are moving mighty slow if that is the case.

Yes, these things move slowly, but they do move =)

They have moved much faster on much more complex plans though. If this is a case of Apple breaking the law then surely they wouldn't need over two years to tell them to stop it? The EU regulations seem largely to be, you need to do X and you need to figure out how to comply by Y date. They aren't gently guiding these corporations to compliance.

So I'm leaning more towards Apple is in compliance and the common perception is incorrect. Which is fairly common when it comes to laws and regulations of any country.

Re: Keep Android Open

#510

Post by sulam »

greatgib wrote: post #180
yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We heard from developers who were concerned about the barrier to entry when building apps intended only for a small group, like family or friends. We are using your input to shape a dedicated account type for students and hobbyists. This will allow you to distribute your creations to a limited number of devices without going through the full verification requirements. In classic Google fashion, they hear the compla…

Even restricting the mitigation to "students and hobbyists" is bad. I should have the right to have parents, friends or anyone use a "free" store that is not under control of Google if the user and app developer wish so. But also, somehow there should be something done to avoid the monopoly forcing to use the Google services. Like major institutions like bank, gov and co being forced to provide alternatives like a we…

I'm far from a Google apologist, but at the end of the day don't they have the right to write software however they want it? You have the right to build things the way you want to, fork Android, etc etc. If you're trying to say you have the right to tell Google what the code their employees write can do, well, I don't really agree with that. Sounds coercive, honestly. I wouldn't want them to do that to you and I don't want you to do that to them.
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