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The EU moves to kill infinite scrolling

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Re: The EU moves to kill infinite scrolling

#751

Post by juliangmp »

Ey7NFZ3P0nzAe wrote: post #630
jameson wrote: post #490

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a person working at social media I support this as well. I'm a hypocrite. I admit, but the pay is too good to find alternative. Terms like "DAU" or "engagement" is common in our field and the primary objective is how to make users spend more time on our platform. We don't take safety or mental health seriously internally but only externally for PR reasons. CEOs won't change that because the more time user spends o…

> the pay is too good to find alternative. You don't sound psychopathic so I'm genuinely curious what you do with your money to keep your conscious clean. Bevause I think your salary is practically blood money at this point. Blood of the additional instagram girls with anorexia. The additional children with severe myopia. The additional people murdered by persons radicalized by media that had to polarize news to surv…

Idk man, amongst thousands of layoffs (assuming op is in the USA) I'd take "blood money" over uh... starvation

Re: The EU moves to kill infinite scrolling

#752

Post by marginalia_nu »

RiverCrochet wrote: post #128
simlevesque wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Companies are part of society and we have a rule-based society.

Imagine a society that had rules on the designs of haircuts, and punishments to enforce those rules.

You don't need punishments to be fair. You can just shame people on TV instead[1].

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Let%27s_trim_our_hair_in_accor...

Re: The EU moves to kill infinite scrolling

#753

Post by keybored »

twoodfin wrote: post #194
torlok wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We should just let people with overwhelming amounts of money research and fund new ways to trick people's lizard brains into giving them even more money.

If you’re going to organize your society around the theory that humans don’t actually possess free will, you’re going to produce a fair number of outcomes that a classical liberal would find abhorrent.

The reason why we are even talking about it is what they said: people with a lot, lot of resources can prey on people. What’s one individual against an industry of psychological research?

But yet again we can’t do anything about it because it would interfere with the freedoms of corporations, effectively. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46870147

Re: The EU moves to kill infinite scrolling

#754

Post by owisd »

bruce511 wrote: post #469
stingraycharles wrote: post #460

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Advertising = compensating someone to promote a product / company. It’s about the compensation. That makes it advertising. Regular booking.com is fine. Paying booking.com to allow your results to appear higher is not. Regular Google Maps to register your restaurant is fine. Paying Google Maps to promote your restaurant is not. It’s not that hard to implement. Advertising is pretty well defined.

>> Advertising = compensating someone to promote a product / company. That's a definition, sure. I feel like it leaves loopholes (under this definition spam isn't advertising, and I guess affiliation programs are?) If I pay someone to print flyers is that advertising? If I pay squarespace for my site, is that advertising? What if I need a Google maps subscription to place pins? Is placing a pin then advertising? Even…

There's been rules around what constitutes advertising or product placement on TV for decades, didn't seem to be such an insurmountable issue first time around.

Re: The EU moves to kill infinite scrolling

#755

Post by dahart »

raw_anon_1111 wrote: post #495
dahart wrote: post #486

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Correct. The proposal is to not be able to use your posts to determine which ads to show. But showing you ads in Spanish because you’re in southern Florida or Puerto Rico would be acceptable.

But I don’t speak Spanish and I’m in Florida…

Isn’t hearing some Spanish from time to time expected in Miami, whether you speak it or not? I expect to hear Spanish and I live nowhere near a coast… And you prefer that advertisers read through your posts/emails/history/everything to make ads targeted at you? If you don’t care about the risks of targeted advertising, and don’t agree with the EU’s decision to ban manipulative behavior, then the proposal we’re discussing maybe isn’t for you. But at least consider that having an ads language setting is not ruled out by this idea, so if you can’t stand Spanish, then you can have your ads in English without the advertisers reading all your posts.

Re: The EU moves to kill infinite scrolling

#756

Post by atwrk »

throw0101c wrote: post #687
stingraycharles wrote: post #460

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Advertising = compensating someone to promote a product / company. It’s about the compensation. That makes it advertising. Regular booking.com is fine. Paying booking.com to allow your results to appear higher is not. Regular Google Maps to register your restaurant is fine. Paying Google Maps to promote your restaurant is not. It’s not that hard to implement. Advertising is pretty well defined.

> Advertising = compensating someone to promote a product / company. So basically all full-time Youtubers who do in-video ad reads, including, but not limited to: MKBHD, Linus Tech Tips, Veritasium, Smarter Every Day, minutephysics, Computerphile, Tom Scott, Patrick Boyle, The Plain Bagel, Sailing La Vagabonde, Sailing SV Delos, Gone with the Wynns, etc .

There is no fundamental right to a particular business model.

This wouldn't mean this type of content would disappear - for every single business producing such content there's a bunch of people doing the same for free. And then there's patreon et al., and funding for education etc.

Re: The EU moves to kill infinite scrolling

#757

Post by oompydoompy74 »

deaux wrote: post #522
jameson wrote: post #490

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a person working at social media I support this as well. I'm a hypocrite. I admit, but the pay is too good to find alternative. Terms like "DAU" or "engagement" is common in our field and the primary objective is how to make users spend more time on our platform. We don't take safety or mental health seriously internally but only externally for PR reasons. CEOs won't change that because the more time user spends o…

> . I'm a hypocrite. I admit Great, admission is the first step. > but the pay is too good to find alternative. Yet then you immediately undo it! Try "I'm too greedy". You're the actor with the free will here. The subject of the sentencd shouldn't be "the pay". That is just an amount, a sum, that exists - neither too high nor too low. That is all in the eye of the beholder.

Individual action means absolutely nothing. This person shouldn’t be disparaged for making money for themselves and their family. Every single big corp that pays well is creating the torment nexus. You have to pick your poison. I personally draw the line at missiles and mass surveillance.

Re: The EU moves to kill infinite scrolling

#758

Post by throwup238 »

permo-w wrote: post #733
_qib3 wrote: post #675

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, yeah. There are always ways to get around laws. But this is like saying taxes are a bad idea because tax evasion exists.

It's the eternal hacker news debate: "let's regulate x" "but surely we can't regulate x because defining x is complicated" "plenty of things are complex and are regulated, also here is a definition that covers almost all cases and the rest can be left to judicial nous" "but people will just evade the law anyway" Honestly pick a post about the EU at random and you'll be able to find some variety of this chain of conve…

I once had the idea to create a HackerNews equivalent to tvtropes called hntropes that crowd sources all of these patterns.

Re: The EU moves to kill infinite scrolling

#759

Post by owisd »

maccard wrote: post #606
kerkeslager wrote: post #507

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's drop the charade where you pretend you don't know what advertising is. You're smarter than that, and your playing dumb act would be more persuasive if you didn't ask leading questions that clearly show you know the answers. This isn't a good faith argument. I mean are you really asking whether creators embedding "sponsored by" scenes is an ad as if you don't know? C'mon, don't insult your readers with this nons…

OPs comment isn’t a charade, he’s pointing out that it’s a very blurry line. If I receive compensation from company A for a product, and I genuinely like it, is it advertising if I talk about another item on their product line that I bought because of the free item I got? If I run a retail business, and have a better deal with a provider, am I allowed to prioritise their results? If I run an AI SAAS, with a bring you…

>> HN commenters are not legislators > That doesn’t mean we’re not allowed to have a discussion about it.

To steel man, there's a commenting pattern where if someone doesn't like a high-level idea they demand answers to a dozen specifics that, if it were a legitimate proposal going through a legislature, could take hundreds of people months or years of committees, reports & consultations to decide on all the answers to, but if someone can't come up with an answer on the spot in HN then that's taken as proof that the idea is unworkable.

Re: The EU moves to kill infinite scrolling

#760

Post by oompydoompy74 »

sbszllr wrote: post #565
shevy-java wrote: post #556

Personally I don't like infinite scrolling - but the EU also needs to stop wasting time and energy on trying to micro-manage everything. We already had that disaster where pop-ups fly out "do you want to accept those cookies". That is just a usability nightmare. People are forced into extensions, just to stop wasting their time here. Also, while I dislike infinite scrolling, why should the EU regulate the design of a…

> We already had that disaster where pop-ups fly out "do you want to accept those cookies". That is just a usability nightmare. People are forced into extensions, just to stop wasting their time here. You’re perpetuating a gross misunderstanding of the cookie law. What it states is different from how the advertisers implement malicious compliance to bias people, like yourself. Websites that implement basic functional…

The government (EU in this case) passes a law and a finger goes down on the monkeys paw. This will always be the case. If everything is illegal then nothing is.
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