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Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

theguardian.com

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Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#751

Post by Buttons840 »

edanm wrote: post #606
runarberg wrote: post #541

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Genocide has a precise definition and has been codified in international law. I believe this internationally recognized definition mirrors what most people mean when they use the term. It does not necessitate the systemic killing of every person of a certain genetic identity. Genocide is outlined in the Genocide convention from 1948[1]. It is short so I’ll give you the whole definition here: > In the present Conventi…

I think it's fairly clear that given this definition (which is the same one I always reference), Israel isn't committing a genocide. If you do think Israel is committing a genocide, I think one thing you have to do is demonstrate how what Israel is doing is different from any other war (e.g. war on ISIS, Afghanistan, Iraq as obvious examples). The statute makes the difference pretty clear - it's the intent to kill so…

> The statute makes the difference pretty clear - it's the intent to kill some (definable) part of the members of the group. This is not the case with Israel given its current actions and lack of actions; it could kill far more people if it decided to, militarily speaking.

This logic is one-dimensional and flawed. Israel is capable of wanting many different things and intelligently balancing their actions to accomplish many different things. For example, if Israel wants to remove all Palestinians from Gaza while also retaining some international allies, they would balance their actions to achieve both, and that would probably look quite similar to what we are seeing.

It's like in chess. I want to capture my opponents pawn, that is a thing I want. That doesn't mean I will sacrifice my queen for the pawn. And if an observer says "he must not want to take that pawn, because he could have taken the pawn with his queen but didn't", that observer would be looking at things in a very one-dimensional way and would be wrong.

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#752

Post by ragazzina »

siva7 wrote: post #13

I've recently visited my parents in europe. I have no affiliations with Israel or Jews. My parents watched a local Al-Jazeera channel in their mother tongue since Qatar seems to strategically deploy satellite offices of Al-Jazeera in different countries, even european. Boy was i shocked at the level of propaganda from this channel. Basically all day in big letters "genocide in gaza" with anti-jewish paroles. I can un…

Can you make an example of "anti-jewish paroles" on European Al-Jazeera outlets? That's a pretty big accusation.

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#753

Post by flanked-evergl »

mynameisnoone wrote: post #534
Animats wrote: post #150

"and block its websites." So this keeps Israelis from reading Al Jazeera. Now that's new. Israel started Internet censorship in 2017.[1] Initially it was limited to "terror group websites, online illegal gambling, prostitution services, hard drug sales". At the time, "due to warnings from rights groups that the law poses a slippery slope toward additional censorship, the final version of the legislation dictates that…

Apartheid South Africa also tried to ban news media. It's a sign of extreme desperation and signals political vulnerability. Hopefully, Israel will get elections soon, and center- or left-leaning coalition government will pursue different foreign and military policies that a significant majority of Israelis prefer over the absurdity of the militarists and militant settlers. https://truthout.org/articles/media-and-the…

Nearly every democratic country has previously or is currently censoring the media in some ways, including the US[1] and EU[2]. Single factor analysis is one of the worst kinds of analysis. If we only consider this one factor, then there is basically no country that is not like Apartheid South Africa. Apartheid South Africa was not exceptional or notable because it did what nearly every other country has or is currently still doing, i.e. censoring media. It was notable because people of specific races had fewer legal rights than others.

Furthermore, as far as I'm aware, the majority of Israelis want the IDF to go into Raffah[3] and are not opposed to the attemts to eliminate Hamas.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Office_of_Censorship

[2]: https://www.rferl.org/a/russia-rt-sputnik-eu-access-bans-pro...

[3]: https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/poll-75-of-jewi...

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#754

Post by dunekid »

joecool1029 wrote: post #226

> Haarez has good coverage. For now. They are likely to be the next outlet banned. The government has been openly threatening them for a year or so now. https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-11-23/ty-article/is...

Considering what Haaretz is, banning them would not be a good idea. Even by the standards of this genocidal regime, that would be such a rare event of censoring. I think a more gradual and coercive strategy would be applied there. Deployment and outcome of that, if it were to be done, would be a case study.

The article's content evokes a bit of Orwelllian irony though, Minister of Communications threatening to ban the long(est?) standing news outlet.

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#755

Post by mrtksn »

raxxorraxor wrote: post #737
mrtksn wrote: post #695

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m also quite concerned about the Western world adopting the Chinese style of governance but censorship at wartime is very different from censorship at peace time. False information leading to spreading misguided ideas is deadly at wartime because there is no time to address it. I definitely don’t support Italy blocking websites or the US blocking apps.

It isn't and shouldn't be different in war time either. If you allow this exception, you will just always be at war. Censorship for security reasons isn't a new concept.

Not at all, you can't be at war all the time as people and ammo is limited resource. Just stick tight to definitions and observe for technicality BS. I.e. don't take "War on drugs" as a war, don't assume you are at war when the countries no longer fight but technically never signed a peace agreement etc.

I think I made it pretty clear that the exception for censorship is only when people are actively killing each other and this is because killing happens fast and its irreversible, therefore tolerances to tackle spread of false information is too small to be allowed.

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#756

Post by flanked-evergl »

phantompeace wrote: post #14

Any regime that seeks to suppress the media can't be up to any good, IMO.

EU has a ban on RT on its books today, nearly every single democratic country is currently or has previously censored media. Without judging this specific action, saying that Israel is bad for doing something that every other country does or has done makes it seem like your problem is not really with what is being done, but your problem is with Israel. This may not be the case, you may not be aware that nearly every country engages in censorship of some form.

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#758

Post by drdrek »

jajko wrote: post #729
oefrha wrote: post #590

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Damn that was a difficult read. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wael_Al-Dahdouh 2023-10-28: Wife, 15-year-old son, 7-year-old daughter, a grandson and seven other relatives killed in strike on refugee camp. 2023-12-15: Wounded by missile during filming, cameraman fatally wounded and bled to death with ambulances cut off. 2024-01-07: Eldest son, a journalist, killed in air strike. 2024-01-08: Two nephews killed. 2024-01…

As much as it hurts even writing it, I don't think its a rare story there these days. History will not look kindly at both sides here, they really have no higher moral ground than the other

The moral high ground is for the rich and safe. Both Israel and the Palestinians are under real threats and thus do not care much for morality that is disconnected from PR.

Terror is an extremely good tool to dispose of foreign power that takes economic interest in an area, as it makes the endeavor unprofitable. But backfires horribly when it is a local hegemon.

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#759

Post by AlecSchueler »

meijer wrote: post #749
AlecSchueler wrote: post #725

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Germany they can't publicly gather to protest Israel's actions either, not legally anyway. https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2023/10/26/complete-censo...

There are regular pro Palestine protests in my German hometown. And they do condemn Israel's actions.

I know some people who are regularly protesting in Germany also, but my understanding is that they knowingly break the law in doing so. Is this not correct?

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#760

Post by llamaimperative »

cies wrote: post #683
mda wrote: post #671

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of them is 100 times more extensive. Ideal is to have none, but lets not pretend that magnitude and severity is not relevant.

Relevant to the people living in it. Not relevant to the ideals set forth, which our moderns free democracies are based on. This is fundamental, so it's actually worse than when it happens in China.

Not really. Compromise and nuance have always been necessary features of democracies. This has also frequently been seized upon by autocratic apologists with this framing (“it’s actually worse here because of our idealism!”) and yet autocracies remain reliably worse off than democracies in practice.
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