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The pro-Israel information war

jackpoulson.substack.com

751–760 of 1001 posts

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#751

Despite all this, as a casual observer, my general impression is Israel has done terribly at making the case for war, and specifically the kind of war their military seems to be carrying out. The most relevant comparison seems to be with the Russians. Russia has no credibility in the West and Israel is rapidly losing any they had, at least with younger people. My general impression is of a Russian-level intensity of…

You will be made quite miserable if you find what you seek. The Israeli politicians basically see Gaza as a "problem" population which they cannot deal with and which is hampering their national goals. And it's shockingly and ironically similar to how Jewish people were looked at in another time and another place by another leader

I like how you put "problem" in quotes as if Palestine does not regularly shoot unguided missiles at Israel with the goal of killing civilians.

Maybe you need a quick history refresher but the Jews were not doing that in 1930s Germany.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#753
post #586
post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

oh that evil omnipresent Russia!

Well it is omnipresent because they allocate resources to be omnipresent. If you did not notice helping to shift focus to what is going on in Gaza is helping them reduce the focus on what they are up to in Ukraine.

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Re: The pro-Israel information war

#754

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Vocally against Israel” when he was just responding to character assassinations?

Welcome to the internet the last couple months. Where any statement that isn't overwhelmingly pro-Israel is "antisemitic" but somehow justifying genocide against Palestinians is ok

I've seen a lot of people chant From River to Sea, which is a call for Jewish genocide, I did not see a lot of people chant for Palestinian genocide.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#755

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This also presumes that any Muslim will be pro-Palestine and any Jewish person would be pro-Israel, a pretty strong statement given that entire communities within Israel are staunchly opposed to their ongoing actions against Hamas, which increasingly seem to be actually against Palestinian people, whom themselves also have a wide and diverse set of opinions about Hamas. The war is shockingly unpopular on both sides o…

At least on the Israeli side, this is wrong. An enormous majority of people are convinced that the war is justified. 1200 dead; that would be the equivalent of 40,000 Americans. 240 kidnapped, with 137 still there. Hamas have proven their capabilities and determination. And then they say[1] that they intend to do it again. When someone tells you that they want you annihilated, and intend to attack you, believe them.…

Even assuming that's true and 100% accurate: shitloads of Americans after we watched three thousand people die on television were convinced that the best course of action was to "liberate" Afghanistan and Iraq, yet another set of quagmire armed conflicts that accomplished exactly nothing apart from destabilizing one state, destroying another, getting tens of thousands of American service people killed, and hundreds of thousands if not millions of Arab civilians killed, not to mention the incalculable damage to the economic prospects of two large middle eastern countries, the damage to their cultures, the damage to America in particular and the West in general's perception on the global stage, and the not only NOT VANQUISHED but in fact FRESHLY RE-ARMED Taliban! The fucking people we supposedly went there to eliminate in the first damn place, are now cruising around in American Humvees and capturing our assets that were left behind after the pull out.

And we DIDN'T EVEN GET BIN LADEN THERE. We captured him years after entering the region, in PAKISTAN, a FRIENDLY state, with a single company of marines. No invasion required, no massive civilian casualties, and to my knowledge, we didn't give any terrorist groups a fresh fleet of well maintained vehicles either during that particular one.

Like, at this point, if you still believe that the answer to these terrorist organizations is force, then you really need to bring some evidence to the table, because every time we go to places we are not wanted, and inflict our will upon people who do not want us there with fire and fury, we leave a decade later with an entire city's worth of PTSD afflicted soldiers, leaving behind billions of dollars in military assets, and accomplishing exactly nothing but giving the war profiteering class a fresh infusion of cash.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#756
I'm not sure why author is surprised by this. There is enormous amount of propaganda from another side too. This is how war is done today.

Sadly today our narratives are shaped by algorithms and I'm afraid that most of the people are not very well aware of that.

Not gonna lie. That gives me mild anxiety.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#757

I have not read this article. I am sad to see it here. I am Jewish and Hacker News has been my one sanctuary from all that has been going on. I feel a dreadful sadness about this whole situation, and unfortunately I have found that any issue I have looked into in any detail descends into a battle of claim and counterclaim. I have had to just give up and let it play out, not only what has happened and what will happen…

I used to feel like you until I befriended a Palestinian in college. He had to take a year off because Israel denied him a permit to leave Gaza to attend college in the US. He had every document and paid tuition, but the Israeli government did not let him leave.

Since then I realized I cannot just let what's happening over there stay over there. I would want him to have cared and known and tried to help if I were in his place.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#758

There are about 1.8 Billion Muslims on planet earth. There are about 15 Million Jews on the planet. There are about 120 Muslims for every Jewish person. In Israel there are about 7 million Jews. The anti Israel propaganda and blatant lies on social media is sickening. To someone who knows what's on the ground, reading countless 100% false posts from many (not all!) Muslims and Palestinian supporters is downright scar…

> the ground

What ground? Kibbutz Be'eri and all the other Israel towns where families are mourning their slaughtered loved ones? Or Gaza refugee camps where families are mourning their own dead children?

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#759

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Welcome to the internet the last couple months. Where any statement that isn't overwhelmingly pro-Israel is "antisemitic" but somehow justifying genocide against Palestinians is ok

I've seen a lot of people chant From River to Sea, which is a call for Jewish genocide, I did not see a lot of people chant for Palestinian genocide.

"From the river to the sea" is a phrase that was used in the 1977 election manifesto by the Israeli ruling Likud party. The manifesto stated that "there will only be Israeli sovereignty between the Sea and the Jordan"

It's an Israeli slogan by the Netanyahu's party

People don't need to chant for Palestinian genocide when it's already being carried out and based on recent polling, the Israeli public is fully in support of it and think there should be even more intense bombing

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#760
post #521
post #7

Pro-Palestinian views outrank Pro-Israeli online by around 36 to 1 on TikTok and 8 to 1 on other online platforms. https://twitter.com/antgoldbloom/status/1721561226151612602 If anything the skew within the platforms is to prioritize pro-palestinian views https://twitter.com/committeeonccp/status/173279243496103143... It also seems like these platforms create (rather than support) anti-Israeli views: https://twitter.…

I think the fundamental assumption of the analysis that there are two mutually exclusive groups, 'pro-Israel' and 'pro-Palestine' is flawed. It is possible to simultaneously support the interests of Palestinian and Israeli civilians (and support a peaceful Israel within the 1967 boundaries), while condemning the massacre of civilians under the orders of Likud (and other far right parties) and Hamas. I think it is cur…

Why does the scale matter? In the legal codes with which I am familiar mens rea matters.

Murder is not just worse than manslaughter it is on a different level.

Western criminal codes generally allow for no punishment, perhaps even no guilt, for a manslaughter. If Israel could remove Hamas without injuring any non-combatants I think they would. It makes a difference. Almost by definition suggesting that scale is a factor is implying that collective punishment is acceptable.

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