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Use of Google Analytics declared illegal by French data protection authority

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Re: Use of Google Analytics declared illegal by French data protection authority

#751

Post by dkjaudyeqooe »

mediascreen wrote: post #412

I think we (in the EU) will soon realise the bizarre consequences of these regulations. European startups will not be able to use standard SaaS or PaaS tools (like AWS, Azure, Mailchimp, PayPal etc) if they are based in the US (like most of them are). No cloud services, no Office 365 or Google Workspace. It will take forever to build up a similar ecosystem in Europe and I think most successful European entrepreneurs…

> There must be some reasonable middle ground before we fragment and destroy the entire Internet.

Elsewhere "fragmentation" is called diversity and competition. It's sad that it has to come about due to regulation, but it's a good outcome nonetheless.

The familiarity and precedence of current offerings becomes a kind of Stockholm syndrome for people. More options mean more chance of valuable improvements, and geographical diversity means different mentalities and points of view, instead of more "me too" options.

Re: Use of Google Analytics declared illegal by French data protection authority

#752

Post by iammjm »

mediascreen wrote: post #412

I think we (in the EU) will soon realise the bizarre consequences of these regulations. European startups will not be able to use standard SaaS or PaaS tools (like AWS, Azure, Mailchimp, PayPal etc) if they are based in the US (like most of them are). No cloud services, no Office 365 or Google Workspace. It will take forever to build up a similar ecosystem in Europe and I think most successful European entrepreneurs…

AFAIK, Microsoft moves most of it's cloud services to Europe by the end of this year for their European clients [1] So I guess where's a will there's a way - they just need a "little" nudge. Should be good for datacenter redundancy anyway, no? But: some datacenters are in fact crappier/slower than others - German datacenters take way longer to implement some new features compared to US datacenters or even those in Holland/Irland. But that's due to slower german regulatory processes

[1] https://blogs.microsoft.com/eupolicy/2021/12/16/eu-data-boun...

Re: Use of Google Analytics declared illegal by French data protection authority

#753

Post by seunosewa »

brianwawok wrote: post #685
bcrosby95 wrote: post #679

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We colocate about 20 servers and in any given month, spend no more than 1 person-days worth of time dealing with it. Many months we spend no time. That includes both sysadmin and hardware. But this requires knowledge that most devs these days probably don't have. We might spend more time messing around with AWS than our colocated servers.

Right, if you legit need 20 servers than it might make sense for you. I would fit on like 2-3 decent sized servers if I did co-location, and would save not even 1 developer-day of salary...

You can rent 2 to 3 dedicated servers at affordable rates.

Re: Use of Google Analytics declared illegal by French data protection authority

#754

Post by nickpp »

ATsch wrote: post #743
nickpp wrote: post #698

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that US companies may need to treat Europe like China speaks volumes about the road the EU is headed on.

Just that two ships are departing from a location does not mean they heading in the same direction. It is true that both the EU and China are swiftly heading away from this unprecedented era of technology companies being able to act as they please abroad without impunity. It is an era that the US, which benefits from this arrangement greatly, understandably does not want to leave. But what matters is why they are doi…

No post body was provided.

Re: Use of Google Analytics declared illegal by French data protection authority

#755

Post by na85 »

VikingCoder wrote: post #667
xdennis wrote: post #581

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the contrary, it only forces those providers to have a European presence. We're not fragmenting the internet by looking after our own interests. This wouldn't be an issue if Americans viewed rights (and in this case privacy rights) as belonging to human being as opposed to Americans citizens. The US's policy is what led to this: > Agencies shall, to the extent consistent with applicable law, ensure that their priv…

You are absolutely fragmenting the internet. We had PII on Azure. We wanted to do business in France. We had to fork our services, and run a full stack on a crappy provider in France. They charged a lot more, would take weeks of vacation with zero support for us. It was a freaking nightmare. EDIT: I love the responses I'm getting. People are in absolute denial that this does in fact fragment the internet. You may bel…

Sounds like the market in france is ripe for disruption.

Re: Use of Google Analytics declared illegal by French data protection authority

#756

Post by VikingCoder »

javajosh wrote: post #744
VikingCoder wrote: post #667

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are absolutely fragmenting the internet. We had PII on Azure. We wanted to do business in France. We had to fork our services, and run a full stack on a crappy provider in France. They charged a lot more, would take weeks of vacation with zero support for us. It was a freaking nightmare. EDIT: I love the responses I'm getting. People are in absolute denial that this does in fact fragment the internet. You may bel…

There is so much I want to say about this comment! First of all, it sounds like you had a terrible experience because you picked a bad ISP. I sympathize. But then you generalize from that and imply that anyone wanting an EU host will experience the same. Obviously that's not true - or do you believe no good ISPs exist in France? Second of all, why did you fork your code? Did you write your service to use proprietary…

We did our research, and settled on the French cloud provider that fit our parameters. They made promises about support hours that they did not keep. Changing cloud service providers is not cheap. We were a small team, and this cost us lots of effort.

We didn't fork our code, we forked our services. We ran everything on Azure. Then we had to configure our kiosk devices to either talk to Azure, or to talk to our servers in France.

"Did you write your service to use proprietary Azure APIs without regard to vendor lock-in? Why not take this as an opportunity"

I'm sorry, do you have any idea of the cost of doing these things?

If you have 6 developers, total, how many of them are you willing to allocate to rewriting your stack, so that you can sell your product in Europe?

Re: Use of Google Analytics declared illegal by French data protection authority

#757

Post by gigatexal »

xdennis wrote: post #581
mediascreen wrote: post #412

I think we (in the EU) will soon realise the bizarre consequences of these regulations. European startups will not be able to use standard SaaS or PaaS tools (like AWS, Azure, Mailchimp, PayPal etc) if they are based in the US (like most of them are). No cloud services, no Office 365 or Google Workspace. It will take forever to build up a similar ecosystem in Europe and I think most successful European entrepreneurs…

On the contrary, it only forces those providers to have a European presence. We're not fragmenting the internet by looking after our own interests. This wouldn't be an issue if Americans viewed rights (and in this case privacy rights) as belonging to human being as opposed to Americans citizens. The US's policy is what led to this: > Agencies shall, to the extent consistent with applicable law, ensure that their priv…

> On the contrary, it only forces those providers to have a European presence.

All the big cloud providers have presences in Europe. What am I missing here?

Re: Use of Google Analytics declared illegal by French data protection authority

#758

Post by jonny_eh »

javajosh wrote: post #744
VikingCoder wrote: post #667

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are absolutely fragmenting the internet. We had PII on Azure. We wanted to do business in France. We had to fork our services, and run a full stack on a crappy provider in France. They charged a lot more, would take weeks of vacation with zero support for us. It was a freaking nightmare. EDIT: I love the responses I'm getting. People are in absolute denial that this does in fact fragment the internet. You may bel…

There is so much I want to say about this comment! First of all, it sounds like you had a terrible experience because you picked a bad ISP. I sympathize. But then you generalize from that and imply that anyone wanting an EU host will experience the same. Obviously that's not true - or do you believe no good ISPs exist in France? Second of all, why did you fork your code? Did you write your service to use proprietary…

> do you believe no good ISPs exist in France

Nothing comparable to AWS/GCP/Azure.

Re: Use of Google Analytics declared illegal by French data protection authority

#759

Post by [deleted] »

VikingCoder wrote: post #667
xdennis wrote: post #581

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the contrary, it only forces those providers to have a European presence. We're not fragmenting the internet by looking after our own interests. This wouldn't be an issue if Americans viewed rights (and in this case privacy rights) as belonging to human being as opposed to Americans citizens. The US's policy is what led to this: > Agencies shall, to the extent consistent with applicable law, ensure that their priv…

You are absolutely fragmenting the internet. We had PII on Azure. We wanted to do business in France. We had to fork our services, and run a full stack on a crappy provider in France. They charged a lot more, would take weeks of vacation with zero support for us. It was a freaking nightmare. EDIT: I love the responses I'm getting. People are in absolute denial that this does in fact fragment the internet. You may bel…

[deleted]

Re: Use of Google Analytics declared illegal by French data protection authority

#760

Post by ineedasername »

xdennis wrote: post #581
mediascreen wrote: post #412

I think we (in the EU) will soon realise the bizarre consequences of these regulations. European startups will not be able to use standard SaaS or PaaS tools (like AWS, Azure, Mailchimp, PayPal etc) if they are based in the US (like most of them are). No cloud services, no Office 365 or Google Workspace. It will take forever to build up a similar ecosystem in Europe and I think most successful European entrepreneurs…

On the contrary, it only forces those providers to have a European presence. We're not fragmenting the internet by looking after our own interests. This wouldn't be an issue if Americans viewed rights (and in this case privacy rights) as belonging to human being as opposed to Americans citizens. The US's policy is what led to this: > Agencies shall, to the extent consistent with applicable law, ensure that their priv…

If by those providers you mean Google, AWS etc. then that might not solve much. As subsidiaries of American corporations they would be obligated to hand over data to the parent corp, especially if the US DOJ required it.

I think the only solution would be for them to not collect and store data from GDPR jurisdictions that would violate the GDPR if they were forced to hand it over to the parent American corp.

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