Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#751

Post by greysphere » Fri, Aug 14, 2020, 7:42 AM UTC

wruza wrote: post #561

ss3000 wrote: post #478

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing is, an open ecosystem that allows users to run any software they want on their devices already exists, including on Apple devices, in the form of the Web. And despite all of its flaws it's the most successful software deployment platform the world has ever seen, to the point where even Apple can't afford to not include it on their platforms when we all know they'd rather not, because it's simply too valuabl…

The web doesn't run on its own platform. It does run on browsers, which are controlled by few careful instances. Mobile browsers are subject to the same rules as any other app and most popular browsers are owned by lower level platforms, separated from website/webapp owners. It is not the same as side-loading. Web analogy would work if websites were executable binaries or if browsers were much less restrictive. It is…

By running your products via a browser, you're both handing more control over to Apple via Safari, the platform they'd have to run on (only Apple can create a web browser on iOS remember), and leaving power/performance/features on the table for your competitors (ex: netflix/youtube can only stream lower resolution content via the web vs via their apps).

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#752

Post by rottingfruit » Fri, Aug 14, 2020, 7:44 AM UTC

mobilemidget wrote: post #745

hijklmno wrote: post #696

It's not Apple vs. Fortnite. It's actually Apple vs. Users. Apple has been taking us for a ride this whole time. We pay damn much and buy the phone. It is the user's property from then on. What the user install's and uninstall's from his phone should be his decision. Taking a cut of say, 3%, to keep the app store running is forgivable. But 30% digging into users pocket is unpardonable. Apple is no longer the underdog…

afaik google kicked them out of the store too. https://www.theverge.com/platform/amp/2020/8/13/21368079/for...

The reason I, and I assume many others, have less of a problem with that is that you can fairly easily still download and play fortnite without the Play Store. As far as I know that’s not an option on iOS outside of jailbreaking your phone.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#753

Post by WA » Fri, Aug 14, 2020, 7:44 AM UTC

dustinmoris wrote: post #698

mapgrep wrote: post #198

You could argue about Apple's rights, or citizens' free speech rights, or consumer rights, under existing law. It would be an interesting discussion because I think it's a lot more complicated an issue that most people appreciate. But really why not talk about how we think things should work on platforms like iOS? What should the law be? What protects essential human rights, encourages creativity, and allows business…

> Personally, I would argue that consumers should have a legal right to install whatever software they wish on a product they have purchased, including onto the bundled operating system I fundamentally disagree and this is also a misrepresentation of the current situation. If I buy an open operating system which advertises that I can run on it what pleases me then I should have the right to carry out this freedom of…

But your kids want Fortnite as a product on their smartphone. They want a customer relationship with Epic Games.

Apple prevents that to a certain degree.

This is not a two-way relationship. It’s three-way. People expect businesses to have a store front in the App Store. If there is none, they don’t think it’s Apple‘s fault.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#754

Post by Fargren » Fri, Aug 14, 2020, 7:45 AM UTC

deergomoo wrote: post #726

danShumway wrote: post #481

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would the ability to sideload apps force you to install apps outside of the Apple store? I'm not forced to use FDroid just because I have an Android phone. People aren't arguing that the app store should go away, just that consumers should have a choice. As an analogy, if I want OEM care for my car, I can get that. It's more expensive, but it offers me strict guarantees about where parts are coming from, and I do…

If you look at the Mac as an example, the vast majority of software is still distributed outside the Mac App Store, usually because either: - The software is free and the developer doesn't want to pay $99/year to Apple - The software is paid but the developer either doesn't want to give 30% to Apple, or they want to use a pricing model incompatible with the App Store (discounted upgrade pricing, rolling subscriptions…

Why hasn't this happened on Android ? Or has it happened and I'm not aware?

I think as long as sideloading is made inconvenient enough, most consumers won't use it and therefore most developers won't provide it. But it should still be an option for the sake of consumers that want things that the walled garden can't support.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#755

Post by eqtn » Fri, Aug 14, 2020, 7:45 AM UTC

atarian wrote: post #72

If Apple allowed other payment methods, that would incentivize developers not to go through Apple at all. Even paid apps would switch over to an unlock model in order to avoid the 30% cut. So I think it's very unlikely that Apple will allow other payment options. It's more likely for their 30% to go down, but even that's questionable.

They can do something like Sign in with apple. If you are offering an alternative payment option, there should be an apple payment option too. If they are forced to do that Apple probably won't allow different pricing for it too.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#756

Post by WA » Fri, Aug 14, 2020, 7:47 AM UTC

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #705

danShumway wrote: post #481

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would the ability to sideload apps force you to install apps outside of the Apple store? I'm not forced to use FDroid just because I have an Android phone. People aren't arguing that the app store should go away, just that consumers should have a choice. As an analogy, if I want OEM care for my car, I can get that. It's more expensive, but it offers me strict guarantees about where parts are coming from, and I do…

> The existence of a third-party marketplace doesn't change anything about that situation People will install insecure app stores to get a hot app. Facebook would likely launch a store with none of Apple’s spyware restrictions. Cisco and IBM and Microsoft would too, and with that come e.g. employer mandates for certain apps and thus certain stores. Apple regulates its App Store. Remove its distribution control and th…

So now we need private companies for regulation? That’s what the law is for. If there is not a good pro-privacy stance on a third party app store, make some damn rules to have privacy enforced like the GDPR or whatever. Don’t let Apple be the law.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#757

Post by eqtn » Fri, Aug 14, 2020, 7:48 AM UTC

sriku wrote: post #610

From a financial perspective, it appears unfair to also charge 30% for in-app purchases after the safety guarantees of the app have been established by apple, thereby invalidating their claim that charging a cut of in-app purchases is also towards ensuring platform safety for their users. Thing is, if apple lifted the in-app purchase cuts, then all apps would essentially switch from "pay to install" to "pay after ins…

Then apple will probably start charging for API requests between iphone and ios for apps that have implemented alternative payment options.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#758

Post by hanselot » Fri, Aug 14, 2020, 7:48 AM UTC

jhasse wrote: post #734

lub wrote: post #719

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's like saying I bought a petrol car but I should have a legal right to fill it up with Diesel or make it work with electricity. It's illogical. The packaging said petrol and so I knownlingly bought petrol. Though it's not really uncommon to modify a car for autogas or electric. Often it's also possible to change the radio receiver to e.g. one with android car. I kinda expect the same freedom to modify other prod…

You're free to jailbreak your iPhone.

It's not like car manufacturers go out of their way to update their new models with anti-conversion technology with each new release.

Unless the car is a piece of agricultural equipment, in which case, we can see exactly why walled ecosystems are bad.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#759

Post by WA » Fri, Aug 14, 2020, 7:48 AM UTC

gwd wrote: post #730

danShumway wrote: post #481

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would the ability to sideload apps force you to install apps outside of the Apple store? I'm not forced to use FDroid just because I have an Android phone. People aren't arguing that the app store should go away, just that consumers should have a choice. As an analogy, if I want OEM care for my car, I can get that. It's more expensive, but it offers me strict guarantees about where parts are coming from, and I do…

> How would the ability to sideload apps force you to install apps outside of the Apple store? The key thing to me is supporting Apple's ecosystem. That ecosystem doesn't come out of nowhere; it's supported by the Apple Tax. If Apple can't collect that tax, they have to either reduce the quality of the ecosystem, or look for revenue elsewhere, like selling your data or obsoleting older models faster.

A third party App Store doesn’t change any of this. Apple can still collect its tax in their own store. Unless of course that everybody decides to ditch Apple’s App Store, because other App Stores are better. But then you need to ask what the value of the App Store was in the first place.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#760

Post by bzb4 » Fri, Aug 14, 2020, 7:48 AM UTC

hijklmno wrote: post #711

pferde wrote: post #706

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What monopoly? Nobody is forcing you to buy Apple and enter into their rotten walled garden. If you "pay damn much and buy the phone", you are doing it of your own volition. "Take the power back" by not continuing to give them your money.

Take the money back and go where? Live in a hut? It's such enabling behaviors that embolden these elitists to lord over our lives. You can't let anyone be a gatekeeper to technology and progress. This applies to every major tech player. And this is the time that we need to make our voices heard.

Take the money back and go to Android.