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Microsoft is building a Chromium browser to replace Edge on Windows 10

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Re: Microsoft is building a Chromium browser to replace Edge on Windows 10

#751

Post by goto11 »

notahacker wrote: post #480
goto11 wrote: post #382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Floats were just supposed to be used to control text floating around images and other inserts. It was never designed as a general-purpose layout mechanism.

Sure, but that's largely because standards bodies chose not to introduce a general purpose layout mechanism despite it being very clear from 1990s websites that the need existed, and instead focused on deprecating layout elements from HTML and persuading developers CSS was the only valid way to do layout.

CSS layout capabilites is a superset of what is possible with presentational HTML, so deprecating presentational HTML is not really the issue. Many of the crazy float hacks was to achieve layouts like expanding sidebars - the so-called "holy grail layout". But this could be cleanly and easily achieved with display:table. So why didn't people use display:table? Because Internet Explorer did not support it. Microsoft disbanded the IE team and did not develop the browser for many years, but the browser still had a big enough market share that developers had to support it.

Re: Microsoft is building a Chromium browser to replace Edge on Windows 10

#752

Post by [deleted] »

seba_dos1 wrote: post #693
gdfasfklshg4 wrote: post #628

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Mozilla has the hardcore geeks on their side. Even during the V30 to v50 transition period where Firefox was, at the time, clearly an inferior product, we kept using it to support it for the sheer ideal of it. We hoped it would come back from it, and it happened: Firefox is now a fast, lean and fantastic browser again. I use Firefox. I always have. My experience is totally different to yours. Before FF57 it was a s…

The multiprocess architecture makes it run faster on newer machines, but slower on older ones. Have you tried disabling it (limiting to one process) though?

[deleted]

Re: Microsoft is building a Chromium browser to replace Edge on Windows 10

#753

Post by toyg »

skriticos2 wrote: post #507
toyg wrote: post #438

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Will be”? Google owns Android, which is the Windows of the mobile world. They push a development monoculture based on their platform. They leverage their de-facto monopoly in some sectors to penetrate other sectors. They hoover up young developers and keep them in gilded cages that encompass as much of their lives as possible. The only difference is that their cash-cow is advertising rather than an office suite. Goo…

Nah, wrong comparison. Microsoft mostly stayed in their corner (Software) while the others (Google, Amazon) are branching out to everything else. Things like Waymo will probably even take over the revenue of pure digital services (though it's tied into). Transportation is a big business. Better analog would be Wayland-Yutani I guess. The corporations that are manifesting currently are nothing that the world has ever…

Microsoft went into hardware, mobile, services, ISP, games and even TV (remember MSNBC?), before they stalled because of antitrust action.

The comparison is precise, Google is the MS of the new millennium.

Re: Microsoft is building a Chromium browser to replace Edge on Windows 10

#754

Post by girvo »

kapsi wrote: post #724
doodpants wrote: post #701

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure it counts if it's a Google website working better in a Google browser.

Of course it counts if you use Gmail.

It counts, sure, but frankly there’s too many competitive reasons for a non-search Google property to not work well in Chrome. An example of this being that Gmail doesn’t work particularly well in desktop Safari, nor in Edge. Chrome though, no problems...

Re: Microsoft is building a Chromium browser to replace Edge on Windows 10

#755

Post by Markoff »

glenneroo wrote: post #600
Markoff wrote: post #513

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i would not trust any Chinese browser with my data

Are you not concerned with NSA or other five-eyes countries (or Israel, which had unfettered access to raw data from the US[0])? I mean, it's downright dystopian what the Chinese are doing lately in regards to privacy, but what advantage will they have over you as an individual if they have all your data? If I had to (or was able to) choose which government had my data, the NSA or the Chinese government, I might (per…

i use open source browsers in mobile and desktop, i am yet to see open source Chinese browser

Re: Microsoft is building a Chromium browser to replace Edge on Windows 10

#756

Post by girvo »

AsyncAwait wrote: post #624
13years wrote: post #596

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. speed. On a million+ line code base chrome starts the app in about 5 secs. Firefox over a minute. 2. Blackboxing. Easy to setup and configure in chrome and you can preserve you settings. 3. Blackboxing combined with event breakpoints. Chrome lets you set event break points and combined with black boxing will drop you right into your code on an event. This is awesome.

Just tried a cold start, Firefox took less than 3 secs to start, granted it's on an SSD. What OS are you using? I've heard it's less optimized on a Mac than on Linux.

They mean starting their web applications javascript

Re: Microsoft is building a Chromium browser to replace Edge on Windows 10

#757

Post by bunnycorn »

Manishearth wrote: post #632
bunnycorn wrote: post #614

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since when WebKit is the "slowest of the bunch"? WebKit's JavaScriptCore is the best performant of the big 4.

Slowest to implement things.

WebKit was the first to fully implement ES6.

https://twitter.com/webkit/status/728643624464883712?s=21

Re: Microsoft is building a Chromium browser to replace Edge on Windows 10

#758

Post by davemp »

godzillabrennus wrote: post #750
davemp wrote: post #669

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If one doesn't want to rely on anecdata, here [1] is a benchmark. Based on my experience and this benchmark, I don't how such a negative opinion can be supported. [1]: https://www.pcworld.com/article/3213031/computers/best-web-b...

Clearly Edge isn't a terrible engine. Why wouldn't Microsoft just open source it instead of switching to Chromium?

I’m not sure, but I’m forced to use edge at work. There are a litany of details that annoy me about the browser—speed not being one.

Likely some suit just presented a convincing PowerPoint on how MS could save some dosh.

Re: Microsoft is building a Chromium browser to replace Edge on Windows 10

#759

Post by jamaicahest »

jcbrand wrote: post #365
TanakaTarou wrote: post #183

What other options do they have? Even on HN you hear "I use Egde to download Chrome". Many of you here don't test your own work in Edge. At the same time Microsoft is getting the heat that Windows 10 is unstable and the last major update shows that it is. Very urgently, I imagine, Microsoft is trying to change the perception of Windows 10 by doing everything they can to make it more stable. Changing the browser engin…

Actually, Microsoft's insistence that IE or Edge only run on Windows has been the main reason why I don't test either. You can get free virtual machines for testing, but it's still a slow, annoying and irritating experience to test in a Windows virtual machine. That and the fact that IE has always had terrible developer tools.

> Actually, Microsoft's insistence that IE or Edge only run on Windows has been the main reason why I don't test either.

I'm sorry, are you developing for your own personal pleasure or for a business? If it is the latter, keep your opinions to yourself and do what is in the best interest of your employer/clients.

Re: Microsoft is building a Chromium browser to replace Edge on Windows 10

#760

Post by currysausage »

bigger_cheese wrote: post #99
talawahdotnet wrote: post #28

Interesting, but what I really, really want them to do is EOL IE 11 so that the web can move forward without feeling guilty about the X% of users still on it. IE 11 has unfortunately become the new IE 6. As it is right now I believe the IE 11 EOL is tied to the Windows 10 EOL...which is not happening anytime soon. Many frameworks are dropping support for it anyway so I guess it will end up being defacto desupported.

There is a lot of Enterprise/Corporate stuff tied to IE. For example sharepoint stuff (which my work uses) heavily is tied to IE.

In my understanding, Corporate is tied to IE for three reasons: it is easy to manage via central policies, it is reliable at rendering legacy (esp. intranet) apps, and Edge isn't even available for some Windows editions (Enterprise LTSB).

Especially the second point isn't new. So in the past, MS has built compatibility modes into IE, where a modern rendering engine is used by default (or at least when a certain X-UA-Compatible header/meta tag is present) and a fallback engine is used upon certain triggers (explicitly via compatibility lists and X-UA-Compatible, or via heuristics, e.g. for intranet sites).

I don't understand why they couldn't do a similar thing now: use EdgeHTML in IE by default, and fall back to Trident via certain triggers.

Yes, it would have required using two different rendering engines, while IE 10 and earlier can be emulated by IE 11 Trident. I don't know how IE is built, but heck, in the early Firefox days, I used to have an extension that could seamlessly switch to IE rendering within the Firefox window. So I would like to believe that a better solution than making IE the new Walking Dead among browsers should be realistic for MS.

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