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Green card seekers must leave U.S. to apply, Trump administration says

nytimes.com

741–750 of 1001 posts

Re: Green card seekers must leave U.S. to apply, Trump administration says

#741

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I received mine in 2020 and have decided to move back home. The uncertainty in general just keeps me up at night. Feels like the goalposts could move at any moment. I know I'm likely overreacting but it is what it is.

If anything everyone else is under reacting. You have ICE officers randomly abducting people off appearance alone and then detaining them for days if not weeks. If you were a citizen the whole time, cool who cares. No one in America has any rights. That aside, even as someone who's been in this country for generations, I've been exploring options to leave. America is behind most of the developed world in terms of sta…

America is also run by a cabal of pedophiles and despite that being pretty out in the open at this point, there have been no consequences for them at all. It's not a good looking situation when even CSA and genocide are met with an "eh, what can you do?" shrug by a populace that has been led to accept worse and worse every year.

Re: Green card seekers must leave U.S. to apply, Trump administration says

#742
post #578
post #521

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"intentionally malevolent" -> Stephen Miller's second name. The cruelty is and always was the point.

You should double check Project 2025 before solely blaming Miller.

There will be plenty of blame to go around when the trials start.

Re: Green card seekers must leave U.S. to apply, Trump administration says

#743
post #722

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They have repeatedly taken incredibly broad if not downright delusional interpretations of legal precedent and used them to set policy. They literally tried to override a constitutional amendment (birthright citizenship) with an executive order. They have been laughed out of court many times but have won a shocking number of these ridiculous cases. This is just another one. Set the maximal policy that they want and m…

H1b (the visa status of nearly everyone here affected by this change) is only 36 years old. We're not talking about ancient case law here.

Is the legal precedent they are ignoring only 36 years old? No? I guess that makes us talking about case law older than 36 years then. (As we all know, laws less than 40 years old are option to follow anyways).

Re: Green card seekers must leave U.S. to apply, Trump administration says

#744
post #380

As an American, I just want to say that I'm very dismayed by the discourse around this topic over the past 24 hours in particular. The polarization of politics has become so intense, that the bipartisan mainstream position of just a couple of decades ago – that immigrants are a net positive to this country – feels like a distant dream. We've gone from perpetually punting the football on comprehensive immigration refo…

Ya, because we never got immigration reform

The evidence for the need of immigration reform was always weak and, frankly, basically non-existent.

What happened was white people saw brown people coming in and got uncomfortable. That's it. The rest was just "fill in the blank" reasoning. Something something medicare, something something housing... eh yeah that's good enough we need immigration reform!

But that's been happening in the US for many generations now. That's just how the US works; we get a lot of immigrants and they become US citizens. If not them, then their kids. Yeah, welcome to America.

Re: Green card seekers must leave U.S. to apply, Trump administration says

#745

So much of the US immigration process is built around punishing and exploiting. The primary reason for the strong border is allowing farms and construction companies to find cheap labor which can't complain about mistreatment. It helps that a decent portion of the population hates and/or is fearful anyone different from themselves. That is what's allowed for these even more draconian and brutal measures.

lol "draconian and brutal measures", it is not your right to become a citizen in another country, they are doing YOU a favour. If at any point you think it is unfair, go somewhere else.

Re: Green card seekers must leave U.S. to apply, Trump administration says

#747

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The cruelty is the point. They want people to leave so they can refuse to allow them back in. That's the goal. It's not more complicated than that.

That isn’t cruelty. It’s immigration policy that the rest of the world already has

You’re going to need to strongly source this one, sounds completely made up.

Re: Green card seekers must leave U.S. to apply, Trump administration says

#748
post #443

The internal memo on this is interesting: https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/document/memos/PM-... Essentially they're trying to change the rules by aggressive re-interpretation of the existing legal framework, and not actually changing any laws or regulations. I don't follow all of it, but it seems to be arguing that the "ordinary consular process", leaving the country and applying for a visa from abroad, is…

So this is an example of being careful what you wish for.

Neil Gorsuch's mother had to resign in disgrace as the EPA administrator under Reagan in a case that ultimately became what was called "Chevron deference" [1]. Chevron deference meant that when Congress wrote ambiguous statutes, courts would defer to the interpretation of the agencies responsible for enforcing them. Almost 40 years of laws were written with this standard in mind. Critics claimed Congress should be explicit but they know this is bullshit. Congress simply doesn't have the bandwidth to pass a law every time an agency wants to change a regulation and they know it. This is all about deregulation so companies are free to poison the air and water without fear of prosecution or lawsuits. It would allow, for example, a Federal circuit judge in Amarillo, Texas to issue a nationawide injunction on pretty much anything where before Federal judges had to defer to agencies.

It has been Gorsuch's life mission to avenge his mother's humiliation. Overturning Chevron became a mission of the conservative movement and they finally succeeded in a case called Loper Bright [2]. As an aside, Gorsuch really should've recused himself from the case. A consequence of that was that the Supreme Court accepted an interpretation that executive agencies should be government by the Administrative Procedures Act ("APA") instead. So that's been the law of the land since Loper Bright. That creates a number of problems:

1. To change an agency rule now requires a complicated process unde rthe APA of proposing a rule change, getting public comment and generally following a statutory procedure. This administration that wanted Chevron overturned never does that. So under Chevron they probably could've done that. Now? Any memo like this can be challenged for failing to follow procedure. There have been cases where USCIS has had temporary injunctions imposed on them for this reason: the judges are saying USCIS is likely to lose; and

2. This memo is relying on a Supreme Court case that considered adjustment-of-status ("AoS") an act of "grace". Well, that precedent was set under Chevron. Chevron no longer applies. So which is it? Do you want Chevron deference or don't you? You can't have it both ways;

3. Millions of people have open cases under the previous rules and interpretations. Courts are likely to take a dim view of a retroactive rule change like this. New cases filed after this memo was released may not enjoy the same protections; and

4. There are people who cannot or should not leave the US to consular process. They may have incurred unlawful presence that will then get them a 3 or 10 year bar from returning. This bar may well apply if they have to consular process instead of do an AoS. Some people may not be able to leave (eg asylees). The wait time to get an interview at a local embassy or consulate varies wildly. In some cases it's already more than 12 months. If you add over a million current AoS cases to that, the wait times are going to explode. But the cruelty is the point.

Also, decisions by consular officials have very limited ability to be challenged in court. That's also the point.

This will be challenged in court. I think it will make it up to the Supreme Court as early as the next term and this court more than any probably in history bends over backwards to let the president do whatever he wants.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevron_U.S.A.,_Inc._v._Natura....

[2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loper_Bright_Enterprises_v._Ra...

Re: Green card seekers must leave U.S. to apply, Trump administration says

#749
Devil's advocate: My wife thankfully just got her green card three months ago. She first came on a J-1 and then an F-1. She knows many, many people who come with the intent of staying either without status or via questionable marriage licenses. The vast majority of her acquaintances in the J-1 visa program were young (The bottom-line is that she thinks the J-1 / au pair program should be discontinued.

Re: Green card seekers must leave U.S. to apply, Trump administration says

#750

I support this. The United States is too crowded. I don't want to compete with all these new people for housing. American citizens really need to begin advocating for themselves. For their material interests.

Also consider that these "new people" are assets to our economy. They're tax payers, many are highly educated, and their presence over the last hundred years is the exact reason you have the privilege of being in a wealthy country. Seriously, how do people think the US became what it is?

Will sending these people away improve our economy? Because I doubt it. I mean, we've been doing mass deportations right?

Well... has the economy improved for you? Has your life gotten better after we dumped a few tens of billions into ICE? Because I'm still waiting.

When will that chicken come home to roost, do you think? I'd like to know so I can make a note of it and inevitably tell you "I told you so" when that day rolls around.

Maybe it'll be around the same time we get those tax refund checks from all the money DOGE saved.

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