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Green card seekers must leave U.S. to apply, Trump administration says

nytimes.com

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Re: Green card seekers must leave U.S. to apply, Trump administration says

#721

Post by declan_roberts »

godelski wrote: post #642
johndevor wrote: post #622

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is it logical that their kids get birth right citizenship when their parents don't have it?

This is over a hundred year old rule and common in "the new world". You can guess why it is common if you think about the phrase I put in quotes. All these countries are composed of immigrants... Here's a short and incomplete list: USA, Canada, Mexico, Brazil, Argentina, Chile. The logic is that the culture is what makes you part of the country, not the blood in your veins. The other side of that logic is that you're…

Birthright citizenship is an astonishingly rare policy. Nonexistent in Europe and the developed world.

Canada has it since the 1950s only.

Re: Green card seekers must leave U.S. to apply, Trump administration says

#722

Post by tootie »

varenc wrote: post #443

The internal memo on this is interesting: https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/document/memos/PM-... Essentially they're trying to change the rules by aggressive re-interpretation of the existing legal framework, and not actually changing any laws or regulations. I don't follow all of it, but it seems to be arguing that the "ordinary consular process", leaving the country and applying for a visa from abroad, is…

They have repeatedly taken incredibly broad if not downright delusional interpretations of legal precedent and used them to set policy. They literally tried to override a constitutional amendment (birthright citizenship) with an executive order. They have been laughed out of court many times but have won a shocking number of these ridiculous cases. This is just another one. Set the maximal policy that they want and make their opponents challenge it in court. It's legal until someone (with standing) stops them.

Re: Green card seekers must leave U.S. to apply, Trump administration says

#723

Post by array_key_first »

happytoexplain wrote: post #505
frogperson wrote: post #501

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anyone who uses this line is a racist.

Some people.

Well their either racist or they're too stupid to realize why it's racist. Which is... better? Maybe? But not by much.

Re: Green card seekers must leave U.S. to apply, Trump administration says

#724

Post by crummy »

throwaway85825 wrote: post #688
fuddle wrote: post #669

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's only logical if you are anti-immigration, which is what the US is now.

The population has always been anti immigration. But what the population wants is barely considered.

This makes it seem like roughly an even split:

https://imgur.com/a/4W9Ub2t

Re: Green card seekers must leave U.S. to apply, Trump administration says

#725

Post by declan_roberts »

timr wrote: post #666
varenc wrote: post #443

The internal memo on this is interesting: https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/document/memos/PM-... Essentially they're trying to change the rules by aggressive re-interpretation of the existing legal framework, and not actually changing any laws or regulations. I don't follow all of it, but it seems to be arguing that the "ordinary consular process", leaving the country and applying for a visa from abroad, is…

It’s a shame that I had to scroll past pages of invective and name-calling to get to your comment, which is the first one to substantively deal with the policy change. Like you, I tend to think this is a ham-handed move, but like one of the sibling comments, I also have to acknowledge that it’s common for other nations to require change-of-status applications happen outside the country. For example, Japan requires th…

I think one of the primary divergences of thought happening here is whether H1B is indeed a temporary visa or whether it was meant to be a stepping stone to a green card.

H1B is only 36 years old. The Immigration Act of 1990 always meant it to be a temporary status, which is why it is so easily imperiled.

Re: Green card seekers must leave U.S. to apply, Trump administration says

#726

Post by declan_roberts »

tootie wrote: post #722
varenc wrote: post #443

The internal memo on this is interesting: https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/document/memos/PM-... Essentially they're trying to change the rules by aggressive re-interpretation of the existing legal framework, and not actually changing any laws or regulations. I don't follow all of it, but it seems to be arguing that the "ordinary consular process", leaving the country and applying for a visa from abroad, is…

They have repeatedly taken incredibly broad if not downright delusional interpretations of legal precedent and used them to set policy. They literally tried to override a constitutional amendment (birthright citizenship) with an executive order. They have been laughed out of court many times but have won a shocking number of these ridiculous cases. This is just another one. Set the maximal policy that they want and m…

H1b (the visa status of nearly everyone here affected by this change) is only 36 years old. We're not talking about ancient case law here.

Re: Green card seekers must leave U.S. to apply, Trump administration says

#727

Post by array_key_first »

marcusverus wrote: post #398
jfengel wrote: post #158

I hear "I'm not anti immigrant, I'm anti illegal immigrant" a lot. To which there is an easy solution: increase the number of legal immigrants we allow. Instead we're doing exactly the opposite, cutting down on legal immigration as well. Making it hard for me to believe that it was ever about illegal immigration at all.

Democrats actively encouraged more than 10 million illegals to pour into the country during the previous administration. They lied about it and downplayed it for three years, and then (when election season rolled around) they talked tough about their plan to "seal the border"... which was another lie, as the bill they proposed would have allowed illegal immigration to continue at up to ~6X the historical average rate…

Okay so? Just saying "buh buh immigration!" doesn't demonstrate why the immigration is bad, which was the posters point.

Also, the fascism isn't enforcement, lol, and you know that. I hate people who try to be cheeky and dishonest and hope nobody is paying attention.

No, I know you've talked with people on the left. The problem is pouring tens of billions of our taxpayer dollars into ICE while they:

1. Do fuck all to improve the economy

2. Cause violence in our cities for no discernable gain

3. Have already shot and killed numerous American citizens

4. Regularly violate civil liberties because they have zero accountability

I mean, listen: you've won. We have the secret police, we've been deporting people left and right.

Well... is it better? Did it magically fix the economy like dumbass Republicans told you it would? Or is everything still shit?

Same shit as DOGE. "Ohh we just have to cut some stuff! Get those greedy Dems and their welfare state!"

Well, we cut it. Okay where's my check? Right guys?

Oh... or were we just duped. And maybe the reason you, and others, can't admit it is because your ego is bigger than your need for self preservation?

Re: Green card seekers must leave U.S. to apply, Trump administration says

#728

Post by declan_roberts »

array_key_first wrote: post #719
testing22321 wrote: post #655

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t want to defend the cure administration, but it’s very common and normal for a country to require a person to leave to change status. Every time my Canadian work visa expired I had to drive over the border, enter the US, turn around and drive back to start the new one. The border guards call it “flag-poling” because you do a U turn around the flag pole. When I went from work visa to permanent resident I had to…

Okay but this has not been the case in the US and everyone knows that. We can try to make things up to rationalize why this being done. Or, we can be honest, and acknowledge these actors have proven themselves to be irrational. What is happening is that an end-goal is desired, and then the trump administration is working backwards to make it happen.

H1B as a visa status (and the one nearly everyone in this thread being affected by the green card status) is only 36 years old.

The immigration act of 1999 very clearly created it as a temporary visa not a stepping stone to a green card. That's a modern invention.

Re: Green card seekers must leave U.S. to apply, Trump administration says

#729

Post by AlecSchueler »

qurren wrote: post #448
seshagiric wrote: post #301

This is just reckless without any responsibility. A number of people, especially in tech sector, legally stay in US while their GC is being processed. They have kids born in the USA. If such people were to leave USA to seek green card: - the kids must first get visas to their parent's countries - once reaching the other country, consular offices now have multi year wait lines for getting an appointment with a office…

> the kids must first get visas to their parent's countries The bigger issue honestly is that the kids may already have grown up in the American culture and fluent in English and it could massively disrupt their education and well-being to throw them into another system somewhere else, depending on how they were raised and whether they are fluent in the language of the country of their parents. In many cases they are…

> it could massively disrupt their education and well-being to throw them into another system

I'm curious: If these changes aren't designed to be harmful in these ways, then what do we imagine is the intention?

Re: Green card seekers must leave U.S. to apply, Trump administration says

#730

Post by zeafoamrun »

gpt5 wrote: post #634
itkovian_ wrote: post #353

The US isn’t what it used to be. It’s definitely not the best place in the world to live for quality of life, on basically any metric. The requirement of being permanently obligated to pay us taxes on global income, if you have any kind of global mobility, is not worth it when you look at the situation objectively. The US is the only country that requires this, and signing up is voluntarily. So while US immigration c…

People said the same when the $100K fee for H1b was introduced, and said that the US won't be able to fill the 85,000 spots. But there were 211,600 applications in the last cycle. Also, your other 'facts' are incorrect. The US for example has the highest amount of disposable income per family, has a lower tax burden (despite your complaint about it) then almost all developed countries, and there is one more (small) c…

USA joins the esteemed nation of Liberia in having global taxation.
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